Bridging Insights and Innovation: Dilek Ozler of Colgate-Palmolive on AI, Semiotics, and Consumer Connections

In this episode, Lenny Murphy welcomes Dilek Ozler, Global Strategic Insights and Analytics Director at Colgate-Palmolive, to discuss the evolving world of consumer insights. Dilek shares her journey from the supplier side at Ipsos to leading roles at Unilever, Kenview, and now Colgate-Palmolive.

They dive into the importance of balancing advanced technologies like AI and social analytics with the human touch in consumer research. From her experiences with impactful projects in global markets to her thoughts on the future of synthetic respondents and healthcare professional research, Dilek provides a thoughtful perspective on the skills and strategies shaping the insights industry today.

Key Discussion Points:

• Career Journey: From Ipsos to Colgate-Palmolive, Dilek reflects on her transition from supplier to client-side roles and the lessons learned along the way.
• AI and Analytics: How AI is reshaping insights work and why the human element remains critical in interpreting data and connecting the dots.
• Impactful Projects: Dilek’s experience in using semiotics to crack the Russian market for Domestos and the rewarding nature of seeing insights-driven changes come to life.
• Balancing Human and Machine: The role of social listening, trend forecasting, and the need for authentic consumer connections in a data-driven world.
• Emerging Trends: Dilek’s thoughts on synthetic respondents and their potential to address confidentiality and representativeness challenges.
• Fundamentals of Insights: The timeless importance of actionable insights and connecting data points to serve leadership effectively.

Resources/Links:

• Colgate-Palmolive Careers: Learn More
• Mentioned Product: Domestos

You can reach out to Dilek on LinkedIn. 

Many thanks to Dilek Ozler for joining the show. Thanks also to our production team and our editor at Big Bad Audio.

Transcript

Lenny: Hello, everybody. It’s Lenny Murphy with another edition of the Greenbook Podcast. Thank you for taking time out of your busy day to spend it with myself and my guest. And today, we are privileged to have a dear friend and colleague that I’ve had the opportunity to get to know over the past couple years, Dilek Ozler. Dilek, welcome.

Dilek: Thank you. It’s great to be here. 

Lenny: So, you recently shifted roles, so why don’t you tell the audience a little bit about your bio in your current role at Colgate-Palmolive?

Dilek: Yeah, I’m Dilek, and I am originally from Turkey, and I came to the US, actually about 12, 13, years ago, and with Unilever. So, I worked, before Unilever, in a market research company, Ipsos, namely—I mean, it has changed names several times, but now it is Ipsos—and then went on to Unilever. And with Unilever, that I had the opportunity to move to the US, and I have been in the US for 13 years. And after Unilever, I had a short gig in Bayer, the pharmaceutical, and that kind of kicked off my consumer health side of my resume because after that, I started in Johnson & Johnson, then it turned into Kenvue, and now Colgate. So, that’s kind of me. I live with my daughter in New Jersey, and I love gardening, cooking [laugh], you know, on top of everything to do with consumers, consumer insights, of course.

Lenny: Very cool. That’s a great, concise bio, and for the record, your latest roles you’ve kind of keep—seems like you’re making jumps from a position. You are the global strategic insights and analytics director, so congratulations on that. I expect this time next year, you’ll be the Chief Research Officer. So—

Dilek: Yes. That’s my expectation [laugh].

Lenny: Okay, all right, fingers crossed. You heard it here first. So, [laugh]—and isn’t that interesting how you know so many folks go from the dark side of the supplier to the client side. And now, you were at Unilever when Stan was leading the—

Dilek: I started before that when Richard, now, it’s such a shame, but I forgot his last name, that was—[unintelligible 00:02:34][laugh]. Then came Stan, yes. I was there during [unintelligible 00:02:38] tenure in Unilever, there is privilege to get to know him, yes. I’m still in touch. 

Lenny: Yeah, Stan was recently on the podcast as well, so he is quite the guy. And then Ravi [unintelligible 00:02:50] at J&J, right? So, you were there—

Dilek: Yeah, yes. 

Lenny: So, two legends. So, you certainly had the opportunity to work with some great folks.

Dilek: Yes, exactly.

Lenny: Yeah. So, what was that like for you making the jump, though, from Ipsos to Unilever, and are there still lessons that you’re learning in that—kind of from being on the buyer side now, oh, I remember what that was like. I’ll take it easy on these poor suppliers. I know, I know how challenging it was. What were some of the lessons? 

Dilek: So, of course, I mean, everybody knows on the supplier side. When you are on the supplier side, you kind of know half of the story. Like, you know what they tell you in one briefing meeting, maybe, and then you do your best to, you know, answer their question, and then you present the results. They’re happy—they’re not happy, whatever—but that kind of ends there. I mean, if you’re lucky, if you’re in an agency that is a strategic partner to a client, then you have more, you know, you have more connections, you’re there in their office more often, you kind of get—most of the research studies that they want to do, they do it with you, so you have more insight. But other than that—that’s even—even that is a bit limited, right? But when you’re on the client side, what I realized is, actually you are in the action, like, you are the one making the decisions. It’s beyond just recommending. Of course, you’re still insights and you’re recommending, but you’re part of a team who’s making the decisions. I remember when I first joined Unilever, that was my, kind of, first time on the client side, like, real client side experience, and we were in a meeting—I don’t know in US, we don’t have that product, but maybe you’re aware of Cif cleaning product, the product that’s, like, surface cleaning, bathroom, kitchen, like, a cream product, cream cleaning product, it’s called Cif.

Lenny: Uh, I’m not sure if I—

Dilek: Yeah, it’s all the rest of the world, but except for the US [laugh].

Lenny: But except for the US, okay [laugh]. Sounds like we’re missing out.

Dilek: Even in Canada, actually, I think. As far as I know, yeah. So, we were in a meeting, and we had done some [pack 00:04:58] research, and I was part of the team that did the research, and we were presenting the results along with the agency, and there in the spot—and it was a, quite an extensive change to the package. The change, it required a 3D. It’s not just the label, but the shape of the package was changing, too. And there, in that moment, we made the decision all together that, okay, we’re changing it, and the launch date is this, XYZ. And that kind of like dawned on me that, oh my God, what I have decided now is going to be on a shelf, and tomorrow—when it launches, whatever—my friends, my family, all my—everybody in the world that has Cif will see this new package, and I will have my stamp on it. It was such a, I don’t know I was so joyful at that moment. It was such, like, an important realization for me. At that moment, I knew that what I wanted to do is client side. I made the right decision, and how I contributed to the decision, as the insights department, my research side, whatever, it was really a big awakening, and a big moment of satisfaction. So, that’s how it’s means from, you know, agency side to the client side. Moments like this make it really fulfilling.

Lenny: That’s really cool because I know, you know, through my career, I can look at projects, as a supplier I was involved with, and then I knew it had broader, reaching implications, right? But to your point, I didn’t have visibility into that, right? I already did some work with Alcatel-Lucent in 2006, 2007 on 2G and 3G, right, before it was even [laugh] a thing. So obviously, could look back and say, wow, that was really impactful research, but I was totally divorced from the implementation. It was just the information component. So, is that what gets you up? Is that what keeps you excited? Is that idea of, look, I’m really making an impact, and we can see—

Dilek: Exactly.

Lenny: —this in a material way? 

Dilek: Yeah, I love it. When things that I work on come to life, I see an ad on TV that, you know, I recommended, or made the tweaks because of a research I ran, or because I convinced a vice president that it needs to be this way, you know? So, it’s really… satisfying that way. That’s why I wake up every day, you’re right.

Lenny: Yeah, is there one project that you can point to throughout your career that just really, you think, man, if I never do anything else cool again, it’ll be okay because I did that.

Dilek: Okay, for example. I mean, there are many, but, you know, Domestos is another product that’s not here in the market, but is in the rest of the world, [laugh] including Canada. It’s a bleach product. It’s like Clorox, let’s say, toilet cleaner. And we had that big communication idea that was more of a tyrant. Like, the germs were bad and Domestos was coming and killing them in the toilet, you know? It was, like, cartoonish. But however, it was not working in Russia. We couldn’t crack Russia advertising. It was working brilliantly everywhere, but not Russia. So, one thing I ran was a semiotics analysis because we were not able to crack it with qualitative, with quantitative, however many changes we did, but when we did a semiotic analysis, we understood what the you know figures meant, like, why tyranny was not working in the Russian environment. What does germ mean? Should germs be eliminated, or do the germs, do they have a certain place in the house, and it’s not where you—all those things we figured out with semiotics, and then we changed the advertising based on all those learnings, and then we made it work in Russia without changing the brand communication idea. There were still germs in the idea. I mean, it wasn’t a new BCI, a Brand Communication Idea, but it was a new execution that was tweaked that would be responsive to what the Russian consumers would love to see. So, that’s one thing that I never forget.

Lenny: That is a really cool example. And it’s not often that we talk about the practical applications of semiotics that way.

Dilek: Yeah. Yeah.

Lenny: So, when we first met, at Kenvue, from a Gen2 standpoint, we were helping Kenvue examine new [crosstalk 00:09:20]—

Dilek: Yes. Yes.

Lenny: —we’ll kind of leave it at that. But there was a specific lens that you were looking through from the application of behavioral solutions. I think it’s okay to say that; that’s public now. It sounds like, based on that experience of working with semiotics, that is an approach that seems natural to you, or that you’re really interested in, is looking through that behavioral lens as well as other components. Is that accurate?

Dilek: Yeah, that’s true. In Kenvue, you know, it was a new spin off and new company, and we were trying to find, you know, what’s our approach to marketing and consumer understanding, and we kind of subscribed to the Ehrenberg-Bass school of thought with Byron Sharp. I already had that base, but with those years in Kenvue, that kind of like… I doubled down on it, if you will. So, I very much believe in system one and everything around Ehrenberg-Bass. And coming to Colgate, I also see that’s part of what they believe in, even though not as hardcore as Kenvue. Actually, even in Unilever, we were not as hardcore as Kenvue. But yes, I believe when people are very rational, that they don’t make rational decisions. And I know from myself, you know, everybody can identify with that. So, I have learned a lot with that Gen Z—Gen2, actually—work, and I am trying to talk to some of those agencies in my current job as well. So, that’s an area that I would still be interested to hear what the innovations are, what are new techniques, and anything that’s developing as we go.

Lenny: Let’s take that a little bit broader and think about the industry as a whole, right? So, during your career, I suspect that we’ve probably been around comparable number of years, and the evolution of those tools just continues apace, right? And I think that even now, where we are with AI is the great efficiency unlock. I think that fundamentally is what AI does. It just reduces processes and allows greater efficiency. And we’re definitely seeing indications of the focus on more fully integrating applied behavioral science in all of its permutations, right, everything from the technological components to more of the framework ideas because it’s just more scalable, it’s easier to implement. Do you see the same things? And from your client side perspective, is that viewed as, this is good. We’ve wanted to do these things, but they were a pain in the butt for a variety of reasons, and now it’s easier to do this because we’re getting more ROI.

Dilek: Well, it’s—what do you say? Double-ended, um—

Lenny: It’s a double-barrel question. Yes, sorry, yeah.

Dilek: Yeah, things like AIs, of course, they are quicker, maybe not always cheaper, but they’re definitely quicker. But I have seen in my both years in Unilever and also here as well in Colgate—even in Kenvue, yes—we don’t want purely AI. We need also the human element in there. Whenever we want to use AI, we always ask the question, what are you doing? Yes, you have written the algorithm, you’re running it, but what is your contribution? Where is the human element coming in? Whether it be, you know, reviewing the output, or if it’s segmentation, let’s say, what are the segment names should be. What makes sense? We need that human touch. Another thing is, there is a place for AI, and sometimes we need human interaction where maybe sometimes it cannot be done through AI. So, for example, I feel that sometimes we are losing, or less and less we are doing, human interaction. We used to go to consumer visits. We used to, you know, visit them, sit on their chair and, you know, talk about their day. Yes, we’re doing it over video now—even that is a bit less and less now that everything is going analytics more and more—but I still miss a bit that human touch, just laughing with them, as we are talking, their children coming in through the door, their husbands are calling. You know, that is I think we’re missing a bit of the human life element in our projects. AI has its role, and I still think this has its role. There has to be a balance for the companies.

Lenny: Yeah, I love to hear you say that, and I agree. I think we’re trying to find our way through that right now. But for a consumer packaged good company, which is what I would consider Colgate-Palmolive, I imagine that there is still an awful lot on the front-end during product testing, et cetera, et cetera, that is human-centric. Is that accurate? You’re still maybe reducing trade-offs later on after things go to market, but still in that early ideation process, there is a human-centricity there. Or is that changing?

Dilek: Yeah, there is, but this is not just about Colgate. This is, in general. What I’m seeing is there is a bit too much of analytics, too much of data, too much—I mean, it doesn’t mean too much is too much. I mean, like, don’t lose the other end. It has to happen. And I see over the years, across the companies, is if it was hundred, let’s say, so let’s say it was 50/50, before qual understanding or going to homes and human touch, it’s now become the quant and the AI, and it’s become, like, 80/20, maybe. I am just questioning that, is it going to get less and less like 90/10, and then it’s going to disappear, or do we need to increase 20 to 30 to 40? You know that weight and balance is, I think, a little bit off. Yes of course, we are making upfront consumer understanding, but maybe we’re doing it now, just social listening. Is that enough? And some people have just said, you know, instead of now home visits, we have social listening. That’s what it’s replacing. But is it? So, that’s why challenge, we need some real [consumer 00:15:45] connections, I think, still. That’s the point I’m trying to make. I don’t know if anybody—everybody would agree or not, but I’m missing that connection sometimes. Social listening is not going to always be replacing that.

Lenny: Yeah. So, the data with, like, the GRIT survey and others would say, people do agree with you absolutely. I was actually reviewing just that, kind of, specific thing this weekend for another project. And I think that that is the tension, from a business dynamic standpoint, is we are in the business of understanding people. Fundamentally, that is what we are in the business of.

Dilek: Yes, of course.

Lenny: And now we have the tensions of cost, and speed, and quality, which are always there, and technology obviously plays a role in impacting those things, but I think we’re definitely as an industry—on the supplier side, specifically—trying to find that balance between how do we deliver that while still delivering the need for the human-centricity. Like, my personal opinion is that I think the era of the survey as a mode is going to decline because it can now, right? We can have more conversations. AI allows that from an efficiency standpoint. Does that replace the need to be in somebody’s kitchen, right, or in their house? Probably not, but I think that we’ll at least have ways to still engage with people in a, maybe, more personal way than we have had in the past. And there’s lots of companies that are out there trying to do that. All right, so rather than me pontificating, what do you think about that? So, if you’re looking at the future, you’re seeing the same stuff that I see. You’ve got people pitching you every day. What do you think the next couple years look like in terms of the capability suppliers could bring to you that you find interesting?

Dilek: Yeah, so I am more interested nowadays about social media analytics. So, of course, I know quite a bit about it because I worked in people data center in Unilever. However, there’s still new things coming around it, you know, new approaches, new things to learn, and I would still like to hear about those because we currently are looking into things like that in Colgate, trying to more be on top of those things like social listening and e-com and ratings and review. Also trend forecasting. Like everybody’s saying we have great trends for you, but sometimes I don’t see much substance behind. I would like to see trend forecasting that kind of supports it with actual data. Like, why are you saying that this is a trend? And how reliable is that data? I’m currently working—talking to several agencies, and some of them say, “Yes, this is why I’m saying this is a trend,” but some of them saying, “Oh, we just did a, you know, desk research, and we talk to fragrance houses.” And so, what is really that trend coming from, you know? The last bit that I am currently working on and trying to establish the capability in our enterprise oral care team is dentists research, in other words, healthcare professional research. Traditionally, yes, I have some here and there kind of experience in healthcare professional research, but my real domain is consumer. But within this role, I would like to strengthen that muscle and bring more of that into the organization. So, I would like to learn about agencies who do healthcare professional research, dentist research, quantitative, qualitative, all that is kind of in my interest right now.

Lenny: Okay. That all makes sense. Is there—and actually hang on at the end, I even may have some recommendations for you. So [laugh]—

Dilek: Okay [laugh]. 

Lenny: After we stop recording. A couple folks came to mind. Is there an emerging solution or emerging methodology that—I mean, I heard you about social listening, although I think that’s not necessarily emerging anymore. I think it’s pretty—

Dilek: That’s true, yes. It’s everywhere. But some things might change, and they might bring new innovation into it.

Lenny: Sure. Sure. But is there something that you’ve seen that you’re like, “Oh no, that’s really cool. I don’t know if I want to use it or not, but that’s interesting.”

Dilek: Synthetic consumers. Synthetic respondents. That’s very interesting for me. I would love to learn more and how we can leverage it. That could also help with, you know, issues around confidentiality, for example. Do I want to put my new product out into the, you know, respondents’ world of field work. And that might also help with when we want to do a research, the representativeness, like, am I doing random sample, or am I not? Am I doing representative? Maybe there is an easier way to do it with a synthetic, let’s say sample, you know? So, I would like to learn more of that. That’s a new thing, for me at least, that I would, like, be interested in.

Lenny: Did you see the recent Qualtrics market research report that came out a couple weeks ago? It’s kind of like GRIT. You know, it’s like Qualtrics version of GRIT, although they wouldn’t like me saying it that way, but [laugh]—

Dilek: [laugh].

Lenny: It’s actually, it’s very good. And they—I’ll send you a copy.

Dilek: Okay, thanks.

Lenny: There was one statistic they cited. They asked a question that we did not ask in GRIT, which was around synthetic sample adoption from the supplier side—or, I’m sorry, the buyer side, and I think it was roughly, like, 70-something percent expected to be utilizing synthetic sample over the course of the next two to three years.

Dilek: I’m not surprised. Yeah, I’m not surprised. Whatever I hear, it sounds amazing and… promising. 

Lenny: Yeah, I have seen some very amazing examples of early-stage pilots that folks are doing that I don’t see that it—it’s not going to replace the need for primary research in the next two years, but I would not make that bet in the next three to five years.

Dilek: Yeah [laugh]. Yeah, less [unintelligible 00:22:09] yes. A bit more [laugh]. 

Lenny: Yes. I mean, there’s just still—it is that technology, the underlying technology emergence. It’s pretty amazing. But hopefully, where I do think that will get us to is if it is that case, it’s the questions that are not answered will be more—they’ll be far more important, and it will be far more personal. So, to your kind of earlier point of wanting to engage with people, I think almost counterintuitively, where we may get to is that we have this big data repository, and we’re collecting all this information, and we never need to go ask anybody for the basic stuff, right? But the not basic stuff, we’re going to want to really understand people at a very deep level, to fill in those gaps.

Dilek: Yeah. Exactly, exactly. If we don’t have that understanding, how are we going to have a very, let’s say, correct or insightful synthetic respondent answer us, you know, with the right answers. So, we have to feed it with all that human side as well.

Lenny: Absolutely. Which, well, so that brings up a question that we’d even talk about beforehand, but I think it’s probably safe to bring up this on the issue of data quality because obviously, garbage in, garbage out on any of these models.

Dilek: Exactly.

Lenny: So, is that a concern for you? Obviously, it’s been an undercurrent issue for a while in the industry. It seems to have gotten worse, at least from—the awareness of the problem is higher than I’ve ever seen it. Is that something you guys are paying attention to as well? 

Dilek: Well, I personally, whenever I talk to a new agency, I usually ask very—what shall I say?—I go deep into how they do things. I don’t take their word for it, unfortunately. I’m sorry, but I have to understand where everything comes from, how it’s done, where did they get what, you know, all of that. Of course, as much as they can give away without giving out their proprietary things. So, I need to be convinced that there is solid data behind their modeling, and enough number of you know the data, quality data, abundance data, you know, integrity, everything needs to be there for us to rely on something that we’re going to use like that because that’s going to be determining the future, you know? Like, it’s not an open book, so the least we can do is ensure that what goes into the model is solid. We don’t know what’s happening in the AI, you know? I don’t know how to algorithms work, or what kind of algorithm it is. It’s not like a quant traditional survey where you see, you know, you can even check: “Give me the data, I’m going to check it.” You know, it’s not like that. So, the least we can do is make sure that the supplier has done their due diligence, and they’re not just trying to sell, you know, like you said, garbage in, garbage out.

Lenny: And from our interactions in the past, guys, if you’re listening to this as a supplier, and you want to go pitch to Dilek, I’m telling you, she is telling you the truth. She is going to hold your feet to the fire. You’re going to dot the I’s and cross the T’s. I mean, the first proposal you asked for me, and I sent it, and you, like, puked all over it.

Dilek: [laugh].

Lenny: We’re like, “Blah, what is this? Where’s all these details?” You know? And [laugh]. And it was—

Dilek: [laugh]. Sorry.

Lenny: No. No, no, no. No, it was great because then Greg stepped in, and he’s far better at those things than me.

Dilek: Yeah.

Lenny: But the—[laugh]—

Dilek: I’m sorry, but he is [laugh].

Lenny: [laugh].

Dilek: I don’t know if he’s listening [laugh].

Lenny: He is. The—but that is fantastic because you’re right, there’s a lot of snake oil out there. And even in the era of AI, you know, it’s easy to work with ChatGPT, and you know, to create something that passes the sniff test at the maybe even past the basic level, but the depth is missing.

Dilek: Yeah. 

Lenny: And I think that’s hugely important to be able to do that. So, I appreciated you keeping me on my toes, even when I didn’t want to at the moment. And you guys who are going pitch to her, I’m telling you, bring your A-game. Bring your A-game. And hopefully everyone else will be doing the same thing that all of, you know, your colleagues.

Dilek: Yeah.

Lenny: Yeah. So, we don’t get to just skate by on, you know, charm and good looks and—

Dilek: No. 

Lenny: —[laugh] which I never did anyway, but—

Dilek: You’re so funny. No, Lenny, you’re great. Don’t worry [laugh].

Lenny: Okay [laugh].So, I want to be conscious of your time. Sorry, that was just funny. I was just grinning as you were talking about holding people accountable and just thinking to my own experience. So, [laugh] all right, so we’re in this period of change, disruption, obviously, from a technological standpoint, and how, you know, we utilize data, but what hasn’t changed? So, from your perspective, on the buyer side, what fundamentals do you say, like, this is never going to change. These are the things that are always going to be important.

Dilek: I think, one thing—I mean, I’m going to talk at a more higher level, but one thing that has not changed is, regardless of what the methodology is, whether it’s traditional research, whether it’s through AI, machine learning, or social listening, or qual, whatever it is, we will always ask, not just ‘what,’ but ‘so what,’ and then ‘now what?’ So, you can’t just show us this is what the AI gave. You need to really then take it one step forward to say, what does it mean for you, and what can you do with this? Of course, some of that will be internal. Maybe the ‘now what’ will be internal, but at least the agencies should make sure that they take us to ‘so what,’ not just say, “This is what the data is showing.” I sometimes see agencies that just leave it at that, you know, like that lower level, and then when we ask questions, they say, “Oh, but that’s what the research tells.” You know, you need to, then make the bridge. You need to link it to our situation, somehow, you know? Or do additional piece to connect the dots or something. You can’t just say, “This is it,” you know. Sometimes then you’re then left, like, well, what do I do now? I don’t even see ‘so what?’ How can I do ‘now what?’ You know? So, I always—and when I find an agency that does that bridging, and linking, and connecting the dots with our business, that’s when I don’t leave that agency. That agency comes with me from company to company to company. And there are agencies like that that I take with me throughout my career, that they come with me [laugh]. 

Lenny: Very cool. So, your secret weapon.

Dilek: Yeah [laugh]. 

Lenny: Okay, got it. Well, and that’s what we’re supposed to do, ultimately, too. We’re supposed to make our clients look good. So obviously, if they’ve done that, you know, they’ve enabled you to deliver on to your internal stakeholders, good. All right, so head towards the end here. Similar question. Some things are going to remain the same. Some things are changing. Do you see a change in skill sets that are necessary for success? Are you looking at your own life, saying, “Boy, I wish I’d learned that five years ago,” or, “I better learn this within the next five years because it’s going to be useful.” Or do you think the fundamentals remain the same?

Dilek: Of course, I mean, the first thing is, AI, you know? AI will be more and more embedded into what we do, but it was always be… so when I first started, it was market research, you know? It wasn’t consumer insights. It was market research. More and more over the years, the names changed, you know, the titles changed. It was not a market research manager or director anymore. It’s consumer insights manager on the [unintelligible 00:30:17]. So, I think this will not change anymore. I mean, that consumer insights was, I think, a change in the whole industry, that realizing this is more than just numbers, and data, and research itself; it’s what you do with it. This is always going to be there. And there’s a softer side, and there’s a number side, and that’s consumer insight, and we would carry it. I don’t think that will change. Whatever you do, whatever methodology you do, whatever how you do it, it was always be consumer insight at the heart of it, and you have to take it to that level, not just stay with market research. Yeah, it should never change that. The look at consumer insight more than the research itself.

Lenny: Okay. So, if I compare it that back to you and kind of summarize—like AI does, I’ll be my own little imitation of ChatGPT—the focus on skill sets that help with understanding with insights because that’s the core. 

Dilek: Yeah. And connecting the dots. Connecting the dots is very important. More and more, lots of data points. The data points that we have thrown at us is so many, sometimes they’re contradicting, sometimes they’re saying the same thing from different angles, but the skill set of an insights person, insights manager, or whatever should be, how do I package it in a way that makes sense, by connecting the dots and serving it to my leadership in a way that they can use it with an action on it? So, connecting the dots, seeing the linkages between different data sources, is a very important skill set, as well, as we go more and more. Because the data is increasing, the ability to connect them is getting harder, you know, so that’s something that we should never leave as an important data skill set. 

Lenny: Yeah, I love that. And what occurred to me is that as you moved from this idea of market research to insights, the debate on what is an insight. I think an insight comes from connecting dots. There’s probably a strong element of intuition to that, and it has to be actionable, you know? It has impact [crosstalk 00:32:33]—

Dilek: Exactly. And human understanding is at the heart of it.

Lenny: Yeah, yeah. So, anything that you had hoped I would ask that I have not asked or anything that you want to make sure that we address before we wrap up?

Dilek: Actually, no. I mean, I think we have covered [laugh] most of the things. I would just say it was a great conversation with you, a privilege, and I’m very happy to have reached out to your audience. I hope it was useful, whoever is listening, and hope we do this again.

Lenny: We will definitely do this again, next year, when you’re the Chief Insights Officer.

Dilek: [laugh]. Exactly.

Lenny: Yeah. No, thank you. It is so invaluable for—and you know this coming from the dark side to the light side, right—for folks in the brand side to come forward and share these types of things, right? This is the only way suppliers can adapt to meet your needs. So, it’s fantastic when you guys take time to share. And you know, always love chatting with you, so— 

Dilek: Thank you.

Lenny: —I’m glad I got to do this. Where can people find you? Because you put it out there of, like, well, I’m looking for this type of stuff, so you now you got to find a way. 

Dilek: I think the best would be messaging me on LinkedIn. That would be good. Then I can reply from there, and then we can take it to an invitation kind of thing, and then we can take from there.

Lenny: Very smart. Save my inbox.

Dilek: Yeah, it’s already, like, overflowing right now [laugh].

Lenny: I get it. How many emails from new suppliers did you get today?

Dilek: Oh, my God, I don’t [laugh][unintelligible 00:34:15] too many. Yeah, a lot, a lot. I have a folder that I made, ‘Agency,’ so I—

Lenny: Pop them in there? 

Dilek: I don’t delete. I promise I don’t delete them. I just save them into a folder.

Lenny: There you go. I understand. I do the same thing. This is my ‘get to it later,’ so when I can get to it, I will do that. Dilek, this has been wonderful. Thank you so much for your time.

Dilek: Thank you.

Lenny: We are recording this before the holidays, so that hope that you have a wonderful holiday season, you and your daughter.

Dilek: Thank you. You too. You too.

Lenny: Living in New Jersey, strange times in New Jersey, watching the news. These, these… the drones.

Dilek: The drones. I know. It’s not me. I have a drone, but I’m not flying it, I tell you [laugh].

Lenny: It’s not you.

Dilek: It’s not me. It’s not.

Lenny: Oh, man, I thought we had cracked the case. Such interesting times we live in. Anyway. Thank you so much for your time. I want to give a shout out to our producer, Brigette—she’s awesome, and makes all this happen—our audio team at Big Bad Audio, and to our sponsors, and most of all to your listeners. Without you, Dilek and I would not have found the reason to talk at this point, so I appreciate it. And that’s it for this edition of the Greenbook Podcast. Thanks, bye-bye.