Challenging the Status Quo: Daniel Wu on Innovation, Inclusion, and the Future of Market Research

In this episode of The Greenbook Podcast, host Karen Lynch sits down with Daniel Wu, Founder and CEO of Nimbly Research and a 2025 Future List honoree. Daniel shares his journey from digital marketing to founding a research firm, driven by a desire to challenge industry norms and push for more inclusive methodologies.

They discuss his approach to entrepreneurship, creative problem-solving, and how Nimbly is pioneering innovative ways to reach underrepresented audiences. Daniel also opens up about leadership, mental health, and the importance of fostering a workplace culture that values curiosity and well-being. Tune in for an inspiring conversation about rethinking traditional research practices and embracing change in the insights industry.

Topics Covered:

• Daniel Wu’s transition from digital marketing to market research
• The inspiration behind founding Nimbly Research
• Rethinking traditional recruitment and data collection methods
• How to foster a culture of innovation and curiosity in research
• The importance of inclusivity and reaching underrepresented voices
• Entrepreneurial lessons and challenges of launching a business
• Leadership, mental health, and work-life balance
• The evolving role of AI in research

Resources & Links:

• Learn more about Nimbly Research

You can reach out to Daniel on LinkedIn. 

Many thanks to Daniel Wu for joining the show. Thanks also to our production team and our editor at Big Bad Audio.

Transcript

Karen: Hello, everybody. Welcome to another episode of the Greenbook Podcast. It’s Karen Lynch. I’m happy to be hosting today, and I’m excited to be talking to our guest who is one of our 2025 Future List Honorees. And it’s a gentleman that I’m so excited to be talking to you, Daniel Wu, and talking about some of the things that stood out to me about you and about your background, and I’m just so glad to be having this conversation. So, welcome to the show. Why don’t you tell the audience a little bit about yourself? 

Daniel: Thank you, Karen. I’m super excited about being on this podcast. Yeah, so I’m Daniel. I am the founder and CEO of Nimbly Research.

Karen: Tell us a little bit just for context. Tell us about Nimbly. What is Nimbly exactly? Give people a little bit of context for your role in the industry.

Daniel: Yeah, yeah, for sure. I would actually say Nimbly is very much a spirit. It’s that spirit of never settling, trying new things, just be super-empathetic. But yeah, the whole idea behind Nimbly is that we feel like there’s a lot of opportunities in market research that could just be improved upon or experimented with, and it very much encapsulates this idea that we’re always trying new things.

Karen: I love that. And for context, everyone, the Future List honors people who are within the first ten years of their insights business. So Nimbly, you founded it, I think it was in 2017, so we’re in that sweet spot. But also, you had only been in the industry, like, a year or two when that happened. So, tell me a little bit about your journey to becoming a founder, and why just within a year or two of being in the industry, you were like, “Ah, I can see some challenges that need fixing.”

Daniel: So, before I leaped into the best industry in the world, which is market research—

Karen: [laugh]. Yes. 

Daniel: —I know I love it—I was actually very much in the startup world. So, I worked at some of the best-growing startups at the time where I did a lot of digital marketing. And I very much was the type of guy who’s doing a lot of A/B tests looking at what people clicked on, but I never felt like I really understood who our customers were from those clicks. I knew what buttons they liked, what words would really get them to be motivated to do something, but I really wanted to hear their story. And that has always kind of been, like, who I am as an individual. I just love hearing people’s stories. So, I made the leap into research. I joined a company called The Sound, and it just blew my mind. It’s everything I always imagined it to be. You get to experience this gift of just talking to people from all walks of life, people you would never think you’d bump into on the streets. And I loved it. And then at the same time, I always had that startup mentality, right, which is very much just like how do we do things differently? What are the pain points in what we’re doing? How do we collaborate better? And so, I had that mindset in this research space. And so, I started looking around and I noticed that there were just a lot of things that—I was wondering why are we recruiting from, say, like, these databases, right? Clearly, lots of these people are doing, like, research studies left and right. This is their side hustle. That sounds like there’s some bias there. Maybe there’s something else we can do, right? At the time, you know, Facebook ads were just emerging, so I was like, could we recruit off of that? Everything from recruiting to even just deliverables. And I was just like, hey, like, do people really want to read a hundred-page report? Ehh, I don’t really know. Like, maybe there are other formats. So, all these things kind of came about, and I really felt like, hey, there’s an opportunity here to just build something different where I could just tinker around, apply some of the best practices of research, and also just try different new things and see if like that might yield us a different perspective. And there you go, Nimbly was formed. 

Karen: You know, for everyone listening, that right there is why somebody like yourself ends up on the Future List, somebody who does have that startup entrepreneurial mentality of checking assumptions and saying, “Yeah, but what if?” And, “Imagine if we did it this way.” And we will have to go to creative problem solving at some point on this episode, finding out that we have that in common, but being able to kind of question the things that are in place right now and say, “Can we do this differently? Can we do this better? In what ways might we improve upon what’s there?” That mentality, again, kudos to you for having it, and for unleashing it on our industry. We’re glad to have you here. [laugh].

Daniel: Yeah, yeah. Thank you. Thank you.

Karen: So, congratulations again on being named an honoree. Talk to us. What was, kind of, your thoughts about it when you received that email that I happened to have authored saying, you know, guess what? You’ve made our kind of current cohort. What was that like for you?

Daniel: Honestly, I felt very proud. I did. I think in these last, like, eight years or so, I’ve been very much heads down. I haven’t really, you know, put myself out there as someone who’s, you know, eligible for any of these kind of awards, right? I was just, like, busy just working the magic of research, and yet to be recognized. And it really gave me pause to really think about, wow, like, there has been a lot of wins along the way, and I can’t believe that I’m here today. And so yeah, I was excited. And of course, you know, I called my parents and I—

Karen: [laugh].

Daniel: —let them know. That’s what you got to do, right? You know, parental validation, at the end of the day, is the most rewarding feeling.

Karen: I love that. I love that. Shout out to all the parents out there who, you know, are doing that work, and to all the kids who call their folks and say, “Hey, guess what?” So, good for you. 

Daniel: Although there’s a funny thing there, though, is I feel like for us folks who work in market research, it’s kind of tricky to explain to your parents what you do, too. 

Karen: Facts. Yes. Thank you.

Daniel: “So, you talk to people for a living? Okay. Cool.”

Karen: Right. Right, right. “And you find out how they feel or think about certain things and then you do what with that information?” Yeah. It’s one of those things that you will always be addressing those. It’s not as overt as some other industries out there where you can say, “I work for this business or this business.” If you’re not in the world of, you know, kind of the business world, you might not necessarily understand it. So, anyway. Well, one of the things that I love is actually talking about people’s founders, kind of, journeys with them. And, you know, you mentioned, like, you were really, you know, kind of head down, focusing and not really thinking about what’s to come, but you’ve really been working hard. So, share some of the challenges you faced in the early days of starting your business.

Daniel: Yeah. I mean, the first one for any business founder is like, how do you get traction? And I had only been in research for two years [laugh]. I did not have a robust Rolodex, and it was a little intimidating. But, you know, I was very grateful to have met some mentors along the way. There’s two in particular that almost feel like it’s like my career mom and dad. One is Daniel Wadia, who is the founder of Mrs. And Mr. And then the other one is [unintelligible 00:07:31]. Both brand strategists, very well established, and they were the ones that I actually first ran the idea by them. I was like, “Hey, I see these sort of challenges. Like, do you think there’s opportunity here?” And they were like, “Yeah, just go for it.” And Daniel Wadia in particular found an opportunity with one of his clients for me to try this out. And I was so grateful that—it was a Google, which is a brand that people recognize—and he brought us in. And yeah, from then on, if we just started growing from there, and iterating our pitch, and how we do things. So, yeah, I have a lot to thank for other people to help me in that initial journey.

Karen: I can really relate to what you’re saying. What you may not know about me yet, but our audience has heard me say this time and time again, as I had a pretty lengthy career before I joined Greenbook as a qualitative researcher. And so, it was the late-’90s—to age myself—where I was going off on my own, and I just needed that one client. And then I had somebody in my orbit that couldn’t do a project and needed some help, and they said, “But you’ll like, Karen,” you know? So, they brought me in to do this work, and in the back room—I was obviously at a focus group facility—in the back room on the brand team was somebody from Kellogg’s. And Kellogg’s loved the work that I did. They loved my style. We had great chemistry and they started to bring me in on almost every project. And I think back to that kind of big break that happened because somebody had faith in me. One person can absolutely influence the success or failure of a new business. And so, you know, kudos to you for having somebody in your corner who had that faith in you and brought you in. And then from there, I mean, you’ve worked with Glacia, you’ve worked with Mondelēz, you’ve worked with General Mills, and Metta, and Tempo. And, you know, you’ve had some great successes, so one has built on the other. Tell me how you started to build your business. 

Daniel: Yeah, you know, I built my business like a researcher. So, you know, I wasn’t going to just go out and just say, “I had this grand idea for a research agency and people are going to love it.” No, instead, like, I felt like there were pain points, and so what I did was I started reaching out to potential clients—and everyone in the [unintelligible 00:09:45] as well too. And I wasn’t even trying to pitch what we’re doing. I was just trying to understand, what are those frustration points, right? And through that, I started talking to more and more people and I was just interviewing them, just like, hey, I had basically a discussion guide, right? And then over time, I started having some concept and I started getting reactions to them. And the most beautiful thing is, like, very naturally, when those folks did come upon a need for research or they’re seeing, like, hey, there’s something here that I’ve always wanted to do, they thought of me. And ultimately, like, you know, through that practice of trying to refine the problems with them, I guess I sold them on the problem, and therefore, they were open to hearing the solution. And that’s what the coolest thing is, right? And it just went from there very organically. 

Karen: Because what qualities—I’m just going to stay with that for a second; I think that’s really important, and I want to drive it home to our listeners—what qualities were you showing at that point? You were showing key qualities that a researcher needs to have, which were what, in your opinion? 

Daniel: It’s really trying to put, like, myself in their shoes as opposed to seeing them as a client. And that empathy, right, to be able to understand, hey, you know what? There’s those other dynamics on play, right? There are stakeholders that may influence, sort of like, what they feel is quality and how they, sort of, choose who to work with, and you know, how they communicate these findings.

Karen: Yeah. And I think that—sidebar to our audience listening—I learned something about Daniel when I was doing my research before this episode that he had a stint with the Creative Problem Solving Institute, which I have talked about before. The model of creative problem solving that I adhere to is something that Daniel then had some experience with. So, it’s a huge coincidence that I’d love to talk about, Daniel, because what I’m hearing in you is that you listened to understand, which is a, you know, one of those habits of highly successful people, right, is seek first to understand, but also you approach problems as challenges to be solved. And I think that is a big deal. And I have frequently thought, there is a solution to every challenge. You just have to stop thinking of it as a problem and think of it as something that can be addressed if you just brought in your mind and your thinking. It sounds like that’s what came into play when you were doing your research on your business.

Daniel: Yeah, yeah. It is a very different sort of lens, right? It’s one that, like, if you don’t proactively apply, it’s easy to just have these… I don’t know, just be complacent with whatever has worked in the past. But as you know, okay, like, once you put on those eyes where you’re just, like, hey, everything is an opportunity, and you get past that initial hump of like, that is the way that it has to be, everything just opens up. You know, if anything, the challenge was like, how do I make sense, and, like, package all this into, like, an agency, and how we articulate it, right? It’s just, there's so many different aspects. So yeah, I do feel like that mentality, that mindset of, like, a growth of, like, looking for opportunities is one that, like, you have to train. At first, you know, you might see one thing, you kind of have to work at it, but if you start training it, you start seeing more, it just gets easier and easier, and then you start seeing all these opportunities. Yeah, creativity is very much like a muscle that you have to build up, and I’ve learned a lot of that and thankfully, like, enjoyed the fruits of that, the hard training right there [laugh]. 

Karen: Yeah, yeah. No, that’s cool. Let’s talk a little bit about some specifics for your work. One of the things, when I was looking at your website and looking over your Future List application, you’ve been really a pioneer in working with hard-to-reach communities or under-represented audiences. So, talk to me a little bit about why that was something that you said, you know what, we need a fix in this space. What led you to want to do more in that area?

Daniel: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I’m Asian American myself, you know? I think very much, and I still to this day think about my own identity. I’m neither Asian nor am I just, I guess, broadly American. It’s a very distinct idea to be Asian American. And, you know, I’m sitting on these briefs with all these big brands who are determining, sort of like, these new products, new marketing campaigns, and the screeners never included myself. So, I naturally was wondering, well, you know, I think there’s an important voice there, not necessarily just Asian American, although they are the fastest growing population in America, but there are plenty of other audiences, right? Hispanics is an obvious one that lots of brands are hopping on. But even as I explored that, I realized there were lots of, like, nuances within that, right? Like, the degree of acculturation, you know, plays a lot into that, sort of, the context that they are in plays a lot into that. And so, that to me was like, how are we missing out on this? And so, one of the things that Nimbly really focused on was just thinking about how do we sort of like advise our clients to be like, hey, you had these specs, but you know, maybe there are some audiences that you might want to open it up to, or maybe these sort of criteria might actually be rejecting an important voice and a very big business opportunity that you haven’t considered. So, we were constantly trying to, you know, up ourselves, up our game on just trying to understand how do we see the world in a little more nuanced ways? Because at the end of the day, that’s our job as researchers.

Karen: Yeah. Yeah, I love that. And, you know, it’s reminding me of the whole, again, going back to some common lines that we have, which might be, you know, what if, or in what way might we, but there’s also this other kind of stem start in the world of creative problem solving, which is about what else. And it sounds to me that you’re applying this what else thinking to your work, which is—or who else, or what other opportunities might there be that we don’t want to overlook because that could be, you know, a golden ticket in that, if we go in that direction. So, I love your mindset.

Daniel: Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, it’s been fun. And thankfully, you know, a number of our clients have very much been open to all those discussions.

Karen: Cool, cool. So, talk to me about something—again, this is in the brief, and I’ve been very curious about it myself—but ‘culture with an S.’ Talk to me a little bit about what that concept is, what it means, and kind of how it shapes your research philosophy.

Daniel: I mean, it’s very much just the idea that there are many different cultures out there. And that’s it’s important to kind of understand those different aspects, right, because that’s what informs sort of how we see the world. So yeah, I mean, we take very much a lot of pride in thinking that way. 

Karen: Are you doing anything non-traditional to reach those folks? You know, are you putting practices into play when it comes to recruiting? What are some of the methods and things that other people can learn from just if they want to start to adopt that sort of philosophy? 

Daniel: You know, I think when you start exploring, like, these different, I guess so-and-so-called niche audiences—although I personally wouldn’t fully describe them in that way—they’re often not on the databases, right? So, you have to get out there and you have to find them. That, to us, means that—we’ve spent a lot of time really developing partnerships throughout the years, right, so you know, meeting different community leaders, joining different, you know, forums and groups, and leveraging even, like, you know, influencers and creators, like, leveraging them to be able to help us or refer into their audiences, right, and find these people who probably don’t even know what you and I do for a living exist, that, oh, wow, I could be interviewed to provide my opinion? And it’s a lot, like, you know, rolling up your sleeves, but that’s what it takes to be able to get those voices. And over time, I like to think that those voices will be more and more easily available.

Karen: Yeah. That’s great. As opposed to the voices that, you know, have made it kind of a routine part of their life to be able to contribute, you’re getting those fresh, underrepresented voices. So, kudos to you. 

Daniel: Yeah.

Karen: So, speaking of leadership, I do want to ask you this because, you know, you have founded a business, and now you’ve had to grow your business. What’s your team like? What does that look like? And then we’ll move into how you lead them.

Daniel: Yeah, yeah, for sure. So yeah, my team, we’re fully remote. I think we’re in, like, different, like, 11 different states, and that was straight from the start. I’d like to take pride in that I jumped on that before remote became cool, before the pandemic. It gives us a sort of flexibility to be able to just like people work on their schedules. And I guess, like—and I’ll take it a little bit further, right—is that I genuinely believe that interesting people, like, who live, like, interesting lives will actually result into more interesting work, right? It’s important that, like, my team is happy, and feeling fulfilled, and feeling curious in their world before they [unintelligible 00:18:43] to work, right? If they’re not able to sort of get that inspiration they need outside of the work, and the only thing that they ever learn is through the work itself, like, they’re sort of trapped, right? So, there’s a kind of a limited space. So, you can ask any of my team members, we take a lot of pride in that, and our team really respects each other for that, too. So, you know, I think we take remote to a whole other level. It’s truly like just, you know, if you got to go out, and you got to go take that walk, and you got to go rock climb or whatever it is because that’s what works for you, then go do that. You don’t need to tell anybody because we believe that’s going to come through in that top-line rewrite.

Karen: I love [laugh] I love that lesson so much, and I’m sure there’s a million people listening and just heard that sort of top-line rewrite and were like, “That’s so true.” So, how do you help shape a culture like that, you know, especially as you continue to grow? 

Daniel: Yeah. Yeah, you know, it was kind of entertaining as I saw, like, you know, digital, like, remote jobs are picking up, and there’s a lot of, obviously, conversations on our culture. It happened quite naturally for us. I wouldn’t say it was as big of a challenge as I thought. I think… you know, it helps that I think me, as the founder and CEO, I set that, sort of like, standard with them, right? I show them that this is how I live my life, versus, like, me just saying, hey, you guys should do this and I don’t really walk the walk myself. But there are clever things, right? One of the things that I love to talk about is just like on our all-hands every week, we do this thing called Popcorn Pick. And it’s inspired by the idea of, like, you know, when you’re reading a book, a children’s book, and there’s a popcorn, and now the next person reads it. And so, how that works here is that each person, you know, if it’s their Popcorn Pick that week, they can talk about anything they like, whether it’s their own life, they just started getting into pottery and, like, teaching us how, like, a kiln works, to anything else, right? And so, we love those Popcorn Picks because it’s a great way for us to just, like, learn about each other’s, like, interests. We talk about the most random thing every Thursday. It’s literally the most random topic. You have no idea. And that naturally builds up, like, that rapport, that culture that’s just very, like, hey, I know you, not just as my colleague, but also as, like, a human being who has these other things that are important to you. And that empathy allows us to be better at collaborating because if you’re going through a hard time, I know, sort of, what that is and people help you through it and vice versa. And so… yeah, I think it’s setting the tone and having these, sort of like, moments that these spaces where you can just be a little random.

Karen: I love that. I love that. And we do some similar things at Greenbook, too, so I’m sure Brigette, who’s producing this episode, you know, from a back room, I’m sure she’s smiling a little bit too at some of those similarities. We also have a fully remote team, and those things are really critical to getting to know each other when you can’t just meet up, you know, in the hall outside of the coffee room or something like that. You have to be very deliberate and mindful about, kind of, personal experience sharing, for lack of a better word.

Daniel: Mm-hm.

Karen: It’s cool. It’s cool. One of the things you also have, I have to share with you, friends, we can get to later, you know, plugging Daniel’s LinkedIn profile so that you can get to know him and connect with him, but there’s some really fun things in here where you’re like, “I live for the ‘a-ha’ and ‘haha’ moments in life,” but, “I’m a husband, pawrent”—so pet pun right there—“Gardener, outdoors enthusiast, and culture explorer.” I’m like, I really want to ask about, what is a culture explorer in your opinion?

Daniel: Yeah, I mean, I think in the way that us, as researchers, would best understand, it’s an ethnographer, right? For me, that comes through in a lot of travel, right, and, you know, just going to different countries, right, and really just, like, immersing yourself in there, trying, you know, what they eat, you know, trying their language, right, like practicing, sort of like how they, like, engage with each other, that sort of stuff. So, yeah, I think that’s super important because, you know, real knowledge, right? You usually just keep living in a bubble, and the world outside, like, people do things slightly differently, think a little bit differently, and you know, you want to be attuned to that. 

Karen: You have a real zest for life, Daniel. That is so obvious in coming across to me, and I love it. One of the other things that, you know, I wanted to ask you about because this really did come through also on your Future List application form after you were nominated, is kind of the importance of the community and giving back. So, talk to me about how that manifests in your organization as well.

Daniel: Yeah. I mean, hey, Nimbly wouldn’t have existed if all, I guess, the giants before me, right, weren’t there, right? People who do know about research, who have really helped pave the way and set those best practices. And I’m very thankful to have had them reply back to me and say, like, yeah, I’ll be open to hear you out. You know, here are some ideas, you know, and critiques too. And that’s helped me build, you know, Nimbly where it is today. And I, in turn, you know, do that as well for others. So, I often have lots of folks who, you know, usually they have the entrepreneurial spirit as well, too. You know, it may or may not be to start a whole new brand themselves, but it could just be, hey, I want to start my own consulting practice. You know, how do I get started? And, you know, my job in those moments is to, you know, is to be a cheerleader and to give them what I feel is the most actionable tips that I wish I had known. And so, yeah, that’s how I like to think I give back to the community. It’s just like, you know, this is not a dream that only I can live; others can, too.

Karen: So, let’s stay with that for a minute. If I were asking you for some of those tips, what are some of those things that you now know, that you wish you knew then? So, if I was saying, you know, “I’m thinking about doing this,” what are some of those tips that you would give?

Daniel: Yeah, you know, I think that as researchers, we’re all about strategy, right? And there’s a double-edged sword there is that sometimes we over-strategize. Sometimes we’re sitting in that room and we have this very grandiose vision of, like, what we think is just beautiful, this, like, this narrative we want to be able to tell about what we’re doing, and so on. And… hey, we’re also researchers, right? Like you got to get that feedback. And so, I think that’s the biggest thing that I hear from a lot of people is that they keep thinking about it, keep thinking about it, and they feel like whatever they present to clients needs to be really tight. And I often remind them, like, hey, just find someone, like, you know, that, you know, you want to get good reactions on this, ideally someone that you’ve worked with before, you know, that would be a buyer, right, and just share it to them in a very raw form. Like don’t even bother designing it, you know? Keep it super raw. Like, it could just be a few bullet points, like, this is what I think it could look like, and that makes it a little bit easier to give feedback to, right? Nobody really wants to give real feedback on something that looks too polished, right? But if it’s like a document, just a few thoughts, like, they’re willing to give you feedback. And that’s the first thing you do to get started. It’s not to—I personally don’t feel like it makes too much sense to over-strategize and think too much, but just get out there, get feedback, iterate. That, as you can see, is clearly my startup background.

Karen: Yeah. Yeah. No, I love that advice, too. When something is too packaged up and too polished, then people are a little more hesitant to give that honest feedback, so I like the idea of raw feedback. It’s, gosh, one of the reasons why, you know, having done a lot of qualitative research, if you’re showing concepts, you have to—white piece of paper with black words on them, like, making this is just a very basic concept statement; it’s not the actual product itself, you know, and it’s easy to get feedback. So, it’s interesting applying some of the precepts that would stand true for research to the work that you’re doing as an entrepreneur. It makes so much sense when you say it that way.

Daniel: Yeah.

Karen: Very cool. Very cool. So, what other advice would you have for somebody who is thinking about… thinking about starting their own business? You know, maybe they aspire to taking those first few steps, but they haven’t quite done that yet. What advice would you give?

Daniel: What advice would I give? Yeah, aside from just like, hey, MVP, get reactions to it, I guess I would share with them to not underestimate the idea of just, like, volume of feedback. 

Karen: Mmm. 

Daniel: That matters, too, so they’re kind of paired together, right? It’s like, you know, if you hear from—it’s a sample si—literally is just, like, you know, if you’re a researcher, you could probably think about it, being an entrepreneur, right? It’s like, if you interview, you know, maybe, like, you know, five people on your idea, right, like, that’s a bit of a small sample size, right? Yeah, you can iterate a little bit, but you really got to get out there. Like, I was messaging—back in the time, it was like the Wild West of LinkedIn, and there was honestly, not much restrictions. Now, it’s a lot harder—but I was messaging people left and right in just a very genuine way of just, like, hey, can I get any thoughts? And then you just keep talking to people. And like that volume, putting in the work of just messaging, getting rejected, talking to them, getting hard feedback, and just doing it over and over again really, like, breeds the, sort of like, mentality you need to be… someone who’s resilient enough to be able to run a business, and to also be able to help prototype and refine your idea. So, it’s not just getting feedback once or twice, but you got to keep doing it. And you’ll learn a lot about yourself. And you got to see if you enjoy doing it, right? Because if you’re constantly getting out there and you really just don’t really—like, it doesn’t feel too fun talking about it over and over again, then—and you feel uncomfortable talking to people, then, you know, that’s a big part of the job.

Karen: Yeah. And that resilience, I’m glad you brought that up too because you have to be persistent, but you also have to be able to take it, right? You have to be able to take that feedback and not run away from it. That’s something more than just, again, kind of grit and persistence and all that. Once you get to resilience, it means you can bounce back and learn from it and grow from it, too. It’s a whole different quality.

Daniel: Yeah, and it’s, you know, this is funny, but I would say, do your best to not be petty along the way. I—

Karen: Mmm. Tell me more. Tell me more.

Daniel: I’ve had a few people who, you know, senior directors or head of insights at these, you know, big brands, and they just said, like, “I don’t really feel like what you got here is good,” you know, or, “You don’t really have enough, like, experience to really prove this out right now.” People said, “It’s probably best you go back in full-time and just kind of learn to ropes a little bit more.” I got a lot of that feedback. And, you know, in those moments, it’s easy to just be kind of defensive, and be like, well, no, you don’t understand. But I did my best to just be like, well, what is it within here that is valuable for me, you know? I don’t need to take everything at face value, but there’s something here. And, you know, most beautiful thing is if you stick with it long enough, I’ve actually had people reach out to me, like, many years later and say, like, “Hey, I apologize for that conversation.” And like, I never called them out on it, and I never said anything, but they said, like, “Yeah, I was a little bit too critical there, and I’m very, like, you know, just happy for what you’ve done here.”

Karen: That’s great.

Daniel: And I was like, “Wow.” You know, people know, like, you know, if they were a certain way. But I just, I never called them out on it.

Karen: Yeah, yeah. Well, and I love that idea of really being able to take it constructively and saying, “Okay, what can I learn from this?” And then moving it forward into, you know, into what became kind of a success story. So, share some of those wins with me. What are some of the wins you’ve had along the way?

Daniel: [laugh]. I mean, yeah, I mean, I generally like to think of myself as humble, so this is hard for me to do.

Karen: I know it’s hard. I know, but you are an Honoree, so we want to celebrate this [laugh].

Daniel: I mean, yeah, I guess to start, like, I’m most excited about the work that we’ve done that I feel like really helps the world move towards a better place. You know, of course, like, you know, we’ve done plenty of projects selling a new snack and so on, but you know, we work a lot with, like—you know, one of our favorite clients is, you know, Potential Energy Coalition. They’re a marketing agency that’s a non-profit focused on climate change, and it’s the most fulfilling sort of work that we do, right? And you get to talk to people who with very polarizing opinions on a topic like that. There’s all—I’m sure once I say climate change, a lot of people are just, like, “Hmmm, what’s he going to say?” And you really learn to just be, like, okay, well, how do I just kind of go in and not get worked up about these things and really understand the thoughts on climate change? And yeah, so that type of work I’m very proud of. We’ve helped, you know, with the advertising council on things like, you know, how do you store guns safely? How do you get fathers to be more involved in their children’s lives? How do we help with teens and their mental health? These are the projects that, you know, are the soul of what we do, and so I’m very proud of all that. And then I guess as, like, you know, as a leader myself, I’m proud that I have kept this agency afloat, you know? The truth is, like, I was just two years into research, started a business just a few years later, the pandemic hits. I didn’t have any, like, CEO experience. I don’t have experience with pandemics. So like, getting through that and then, you know, the economy struggling, and just being able to, like, you know, be resilient, rally you team, you know, like, maintain relationships, those things are—were very, very, very, very hard. So, I see those as success that I was able to personally get through those. And then also along the way, my team and myself just working on work that we feel very proud of.

Karen: I love that. Thank you. It’s so inspirational, and I imagine there’s people listening saying, yeah, I either want to do that, or achieve that, or work for a company like yours. That’s good stuff you just shared. Thank you so much. I love hearing it. I love hearing it. So, now I’m going to ask you know, before we wrap, put your, you know, kind of future lens in place, you know? One of the things we always say at Greenbook, you know, is, “We’re the future of insights.” It’s our tagline. What do you think is coming our way? What’s your view of the future at this point?

Daniel: This is a very interesting question. I think there’s a very interesting conversation that people are having, right, is, like, how do we maintain the humanity of research while there’s massive breakthroughs on big data, on AI, right? All these hot topics that just, probably 15 sessions at every research conference about. And those things are valuable, and I think the future of, like, you know, research, of insights, is think about how do we, like, cleverly blend the two of those? And I imagine there’s going to be a bit of, like, you know, correction on both sides, right? Like, the most recent wave that I would speak to would be the wave of, like, DIY tools, right? To shift to, like, fast, nimble, low-cost, quick-turn sort of feedback. But you know, there’s sort of like a strategic element that gets lost along the way, and some other downsides. And so, I think companies are still trying to find the blend of, like, when do we use what for what? So, I think right now, we got this super cool, like, world that we’re heading into, you know, with AI that can come through everything from, like, screening recruits to, like, you know, eventually conducting interviews, right, doing initial analysis and all those other things. And I think it’s understanding, like, well, like, how do we deploy it thoughtfully, and how do we still, like, really bring out the consumer’s voice in a very, you know, human way? Like, the stories that, like, when you hear it, those one-liners that just, like… pausing, just makes you, like, tear up a little bit. Like, I’m sure, Karen, you can think of some of those interviews you’ve done before, you’re like, wow, like that’s deep, and our brand should be building our, like, reason to, like, exist around that sort of tension in their lives. And those are the things that, you know, we want to be able to make sure that we still are able to find while doing all the other things.

Karen: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Hats off to that concept. I like it very much. So, I’m excited that you are going to be joining us at IIEX North America with other Future List Honorees. So, for those of you listening, this episode is coming out well in advance of being able to register for this year’s IIEX North America event and our other IIEX events as well. But you’ll be sitting on a panel with other CEOs, and we are going to have such a great conversation. I’m so glad about that. So, that’s one kind of thing that you have in store as a Future List Honoree. What else do you think this kind of this award, this recognition will do for you personally, Daniel?

Daniel: You know, it actually very much refreshed this feeling I have around, like, I want to be a lot more immersed in the community now, you know? Like, you know, I kind of flip—you know, go side—you know, go in and out, right, because, you know, running a business is very busy, so you don’t always necessarily have that time to be able to, like, meet other folks and so on. So, I’m super excited to just be, like, inspired by other folks, and to just find other ways in which, like, you know, we can collaborate on, like, how to make research better. I know these things are kind of like, you know, broad and general, but they’re important, you know, they’re they feel-good. And that’s, by the way, something that I’ve always felt is very important is that we have to keep re-finding our love for research. We always have to do because the truth of the matter is, I think over time it gets dulled a little, you know? There are things like intense timelines, and so on, and it just can get very, you know, transactional. But at the end of the day, like, if you zoom back out, like, there’s a reason why you’re in this space. You love the empathy, you love these people in there. And so, I’ve been very reinvigorated by that, and I’m excited to just dive back in and feel that soul of research again.

Karen: Oh, I love that. ‘the soul of research again.’ Well, thank you for bringing it, certainly in this episode, and again, I can’t wait to see you doing some of that live. So, I’m so grateful, Daniel. And also I’m feeling pretty validated that you made the list. This, ladies and gentlemen, is somebody who just kind of emits everything that we look for in an honoree, and it’s likely why the judges ended up selecting you from amongst the finalists. So, tell me, is there anything that you wish I’d asked that I didn’t get to, because our time’s about up?

Daniel: I would just—I know I’m going to lob this out there, but I would say, people, take care of your mental health. I know we talk a lot about that, but I would just throw it out there again. You know, my journey is very much as a founder and CEO, and you know, I’ve gone through very hard times, depression, anxiety, and as very—and people in this industry, I believe that our hearts are very soft. I think that we are, in some ways, much more vulnerable to feeling, you know, pain and sadness, as well as joy and so on, right? But we really feel our feelings and other people’s feelings, and so I would just say like, hey, you know, like, out there, [unintelligible 00:38:12] everyone’s got different ways to approach it, but don’t forget about it.

Karen: I love that so much, and I want to stay with it for just one minute before we wrap because I think it’s important for a few reasons. Some of the people that are listening might work in categories that are hard.

Daniel: Yeah.

Karen: I for, you know, a while there, I was doing some work that was in the healthcare space, and listening to people talk about some of their health issues, that’s very challenging, and that can be something that people who are naturally empathetic often take on some of that, right? And you can walk away from a project like that with, you know, with internal deep emotions because you’ve been an empath in that situation—

Daniel: Mm-hm.

Karen: If you’re not always. So, I think that it could be category specific, but also I think that there are so many trends about mental health and just how anxious we feel as a society—which you and I could probably talk a lot about that—meeting those deadlines, and feeling that pressure, and the need to compete, and people wanting to strive to achieve, I think all of that pressure can really take some toll on individuals out there. So, I’m glad you’re saying that and giving that advice as well to take care of your mental health. And you’re not the first CEO that carries the weight of the world on their shoulders [laugh].

Daniel: [laugh]. You know, I had one of my good friends, John Broderick, he used to work at Dove, and he told me something that he used to share with his team, and he shared with me before, too, which is that he worked on Dove, like, you know, soap bars, right? And he said that, you know, things when things get stressful, he just reminds himself that we’re just talking about soap.

Karen: Yeah. Yeah. We’re just talking about soap. I have a colleague on my team as well, who has a very similar point of view, like you know, like, at the end of the day, this particular thing is not a life-and-death issue, Karen. And I’m like, “You’re right. You’re right. I can let that one go.” So, she’s very quick to remind me [unintelligible 00:40:03]. Hat’s off, Susan Griffin. You know who you are [laugh]. We’ll have to—when we get off the show, you’ll have to follow up with Brigette about some of these people that you’ve shouted out, and make sure we’d link to them because we want to give them proper credit when we do that in the [show notes 00:40:17]. So Daniel, thank you so much. Tell our listeners where they can reach you, how they can find you and connect with you down the road.

Daniel: Feel free to connect with me on LinkedIn, linkedin.com/in/wudaniel. And you can also check out our website, nimblyinsights.com. And yeah, reach out. I’m happy to chat and just build a connection.

Karen: I’m so glad that we had you on the show today, Daniel, really. It’s been great fun talking to you.

Daniel: Yeah, thank you, Karen.

Karen: And to all of our listeners, thank you for tuning in and listening. I hope you wrote down a lot of things, advice from Daniel about what to do if you’re having these thoughts about founding your own business or how to get that startup mentality for yourself. So, I wish you, our listeners, all the best. I also want to thank our editor, Big Bad Audio. Thank you, Jamie, for everything that you do to help us sound better than we actually sound when we’re recording. So, we appreciate you. And of course, Daniel, once again, thank you for joining us.

Daniel: Yeah, thank you.

Karen: All right. Bye-bye, everyone. We’ll see you next time.