From Panels to Behavioral AI: Vin DeRobertis on the Future of Insights

What happens when behavioral data, AI, and human expertise collide? In this episode, Vin DeRobertis joins Leonard Murphy to explore the rapidly changing future of insights. From his early days in online panels to leading innovation at Generation Lab and Verb AI, Vin shares why first-party behavioral data may become the most valuable asset in the AI era. The conversation dives into synthetic data, evolving buyer expectations, the rise of “data technology companies,” and why human interpretation still matters, even in an increasingly automated world.

Transcript

Leonard Murphy: Hello everybody, it's Lenny Murphy with another edition of our CEO series of interviews. Thanks for taking time out of your busy day to spend with myself and my guest. And today I am joined by Vin D. Robert, who I was uh right before the call, Vin said that I nailed it. So I want to make sure that I nailed it exactly the same. So Vin, welcome. How are you?

Vin DeRobertis: Hello. Hello. Uh, thank you for having me. I'm doing well. You know, it's it uh the snow's melting up here. We're getting ready to enjoy spring, so I think this is a really good time to chat.

Leonard Murphy: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

Vin DeRobertis: Yep.

Leonard Murphy: So the uh it's the era of growth, right?

Vin DeRobertis: That's right.

Leonard Murphy: And uh

Vin DeRobertis: You know what I mean? there there are winds of change going all over the world uh both uh business and uh everything else.

Leonard Murphy: Yeah,

Vin DeRobertis: So I think it's a great
 
Leonard Murphy: Whatever. Yep. And we are going to get into that.

Vin DeRobertis: Time

Leonard Murphy: So uh so for those who don't know you uh why don't you give a a quick uh quick bio and how you got to become I should sorry I should have said you are the the CEO of Generation Lab.

Vin DeRobertis: Sure.

Leonard Murphy: Um and uh we'll we'll get to that part. So go

Vin DeRobertis: Should I start I'll start there.

Leonard Murphy: Ahead whatever

Vin DeRobertis: Um and then should I work backwards or is it better to start backwards and work forward? Okay. Sure.

Leonard Murphy: Works for you.

Vin DeRobertis: I I you know I I'll start where um my background originally after graduating from college I worked in restaurant nightclub industry and I I worked there for a couple years. That's not on my LinkedIn just to be very clear on that. Um,

Leonard Murphy: But as soon as you say it, I absolutely could see it,

Vin DeRobertis: Yeah, Lenny, let me tell you one thing.

Leonard Murphy: Man.

Vin DeRobertis: It's one thing to get yelled at from a customer uh via email. It's another thing to get yelled at from someone two foot away from your face because you got to forgot to put a lime on their rum and coke. Um, but it teach it does teach you something. I I was about to say you really learn how to handle people and work with customers. So, that was my background. Um, after that I I I worked at NPD, which is now known as Circana. And it's a it's a good place to learn. You know, when you're young, you think you know everything, but I worked there as a programmer and it was they needed someone they knew how to copy and paste and I said I could and I think I might have fibbed a little bit, but um worked through there for a little bit. Uh worked on my own a little bit and then after I I joined a company called Carbon View, which you you you may know, but that that's a it's a deep cut if you know that one. That's the best way to put it.
 
Leonard Murphy: I remember carbon view. I remember carbon.

Vin DeRobertis: Yeah. Uh, you know, I I I want to say I got it off the ground,

Leonard Murphy: Yep.

Vin DeRobertis: But I I'm I'm probably exaggerating upward by that. I I work there first with with a guy named Rick Rogers, who now runs a company called Rev Optimal. He's a good buddy of mine, a couple of us. And it was part of a mall research firm and we were their foray into

Leonard Murphy: Mhm.

Vin DeRobertis: Online. So, it was a a a good amount of clients and it was the right progression. uh I worked there for about a year and a half and then I joined E-Rewards which which is a large panel company that you know became e- rewards research now dyna I was there for the e-rewards research now part uh for 11 years and I went from individual contributor to managing a large part of the business uh both both nationally and globally that was a really great ride uh we exited in 2015 to courtsquare but you know you learned so much along the way and that was a good combination of unique product and right timing, which in business are really hard to come by to be honest, but when you're on when you're on when you're on the the right path, it's it's good to to stay on that path. So, I was there for 11 years. After that, I I was recruited to to there was a company out of the UK that was owned by Next 15. They were called MIG at the time, and they had roughly 20 people, and they wanted to grow in America, and they brought me aboard to uh start America. you know, I say America's, which is US and Canada because I I look at it as one country for at least from business purposes. Um, and Toronto is such a great market. But, uh, I was there and I I was there for almost eight years. I went from America's CEO, I I did a year at Global CEO and then I left in August and I had met the the fellas here at Generation Lab along the way and I I wanted to become part of it because I think their technology is pretty unique and um having having a unique technology right now, especially in the land of AI, uh does help you stand out. So, you know, we have a a panel in the Gen Z experts. We're on CNBC a ton that people know us from, but really our main product is a behavioral uh application that we use on young adult phones where we see 500,000 data points a day. And I think you know, Lennon, you and I have chatted a couple of times throughout the last months and years about as everything moves to AI, really the future we I believe is in the data.

Leonard Murphy: What's

Vin DeRobertis: And if you have the data, everything else will will come second nature. So that's how I've been.

Leonard Murphy: This?

Vin DeRobertis: I've been here, oh my god, four, four and a half months, give or take. Uh, you know, but there's also Christmas and New Year, so it's always hard to say. So let's say I've been here four months, maybe a little bit longer, but who's counting?

Leonard Murphy: Well,

Vin DeRobertis: So

Leonard Murphy: Now so is the Verve deal. In fact, if I recall correctly, that was an acquisition or a merger. Um, was that something I don't recall the timing of that. Was that something you engineered or was it already in motion before you came
 
Vin DeRobertis: It it it was in motion and it probably predated me by a couple of months.

Leonard Murphy: On?

Vin DeRobertis: So, you know, Lenny, the the verb product was originally called Civic Sync. They were the runners up at X in I I believe in in in Europe and I don't know if the compet competition is global along those lines. I think you pick a regional winner. Um am I am I correct in saying that they were called Civic Sync and

Leonard Murphy: So that now that that was actually North America that they were up.

Vin DeRobertis: Yeah. Yeah.

Leonard Murphy: So

Vin DeRobertis: Yeah. Yeah. So, so you know,

Leonard Murphy: Yeah.

Vin DeRobertis: Great technology and then sometimes you you put a couple of small companies together, you build something nice and I think we're on that path. So, we have two different distinct lines of business,

Leonard Murphy: Yeah.

Vin DeRobertis: But um you know, we can we can answer questions in a lot of different ways and we're you know, we're making we're making some

Leonard Murphy: Yep.

Vin DeRobertis: Waves.

Leonard Murphy: The Yes. And that and that's great. That's probably a good uh you know a good segue. So you I mean you've been the ride from early online, you know, with uh with Carbon View into uh obviously with with Ewards and uh the I mean the fundamental way that I think about the industry is our our job is to deliver information at at the highest level. Um uh and we do that by connecting people to people who other people who need information. Um and that's the sample industry. And I think that that hasn't changed and I don't see that changing with everything happening in the industry. How do you get from here to there, right? That's obviously changing quite a bit and the uh the nature of the information. So, uh and and maybe you can relate to this. I mean, over the years, it's not it's not new passive metering and and behavioral uh data is not new. Uh there's been lots of companies over the years that have done that. But it seems as if in the research space, in the inside space, nobody really knew what the hell to do with it, right? It was applied to very specific issues path to purchase, you know, things like that. But even though we we understood at least I I expect you and I both did the uh the the value of single source of information right of a 360 degree view of an individual and not just what they say but what they do and how you know that could really drive value. uh it seems if we had significant issues of of wedging that into the existing workflow the way you know kind of the project workflow that the industry thrived on now AI has unlocked that right now we're in the world of synthesis and easy synthesis and or relatively easy synthesis and so I sense that the demand for that data is growing both from a research standpoint and from an AI training set standpoint point because folks now don't have to so much worry how do we shoehorn this data set in with that data set right um uh the technical issues have been resolved to a great extent and now it's more like oh okay now we can do all of this really cool stuff and it's not hard and we can answer so many questions that's my sense of where things are you tell me you're in the trenches is that the the transformation that you're seeing

Vin DeRobertis: You know, I I I'll tell you the transformation that we're seeing are that the the buyers historically previously of behavioral data used to be a certain group of people that knew how to understand a very particular data set and and it it and also I I remember just working on behavioral data or having jobs and a and researchers that I I believe are very talented, they still are very talented, they would look them and be like I don't understand this and and now with the advancement of

Leonard Murphy: Yeah. Yeah.

Vin DeRobertis: Tools you can make that digestible to a lot of people and I if

Leonard Murphy: Yeah.

Vin DeRobertis: I look at the different angles or or avenues of commercialization is it someone in digital transformation that is looking to accelerate people that would never have looked at a behavioral research project or even a market research product right it's not in their DNA but they also understand that I'm going to take my application and plug it into their ecosystem or plug it into their lake. A and that does become very powerful. So that the people that are my that that you would think you're a normal buyer, sometimes people look at and they're like, "No, you know, that that's not that's not something I want." But then the people next to them that I never thought would be buyers are like, "Yeah, that's exactly the piece that we need." And do even even in the commercialization of

Leonard Murphy: That

Vin DeRobertis: It, do I lead with a a pitch?

Leonard Murphy: Was

Vin DeRobertis: Do I lead to solve a problem? Because when you when you with behavioral data, at least on our product, it does so much that I need to boil the ocean with two or three examples, but in reality, if you're going to give me a successful interaction, my first one, I would say, hi, you know, um, this is what we're here to do. By the way, do you want my pilot data? it's in Snowflake and you can play with it yourself. And a lot of times when you get that engagement, people look at it and they're like, "Oh my god, like this is what this shows." And it goes right into their ecosystem. But again, you know, not everyone's capable of doing that. So you have a bunch of areas where you're having data and then you're having varying degrees of human capital,

Leonard Murphy: Sure.

Vin DeRobertis: Right? And it's not like I need a researcher for 80 hours this time, but I still do need it for 80. And and just like you talk about human in the loop work, my product needs a human in the loop too I believe to be successful. So new avenues great, new buyers great, still understanding the way the product fit goes beyond a traditional buyer is really excellent

Leonard Murphy: Yeah. And are you saying that the uh so you mentioned that the uh kind

Vin DeRobertis: Too.

Leonard Murphy: Of legacy or historical buyers of this data were not necessarily in the insight space. Um the what I see happening is the democratization of insights across the board. Right? So the insights buyer the traditional insights buyer is not the only buyer.

Vin DeRobertis: Yeah.

Leonard Murphy: Um now they are very focused maybe in product or brand or marketing or you know elsewhere in the organization to your point they bring a very specific lens you're not necessarily interested in time series
 
Vin DeRobertis: Yeah.

Leonard Murphy: Of geoloccation time series of quicks serve casual dining like

Vin DeRobertis: Yeah.

Leonard Murphy: I don't really know that right but very interested in your Amazon shopping right

Vin DeRobertis: That's right. That's

Leonard Murphy: So right so to your point that needing a a

Vin DeRobertis: Right.

Leonard Murphy: Researcher What I would translate that is you need somebody who understands what the value of the data regard based upon the business issues they're trying to solve and to make that usable overall. Is that kind of your sense of that's that's really what we're unlocking now is an expanded sense of usability.

Vin DeRobertis: I I think that's an accurate sentence. And I also I I think insights just in general is it's such an evolving um function at companies right now. It's not going to zero and I think there's the the sky is falling but it is going to look differently right and the person I'm dealing with right now one group is insights someone's digital transformation and then you're dealing with an AI consultant that says look I'm going to build and and power this for an entire private equity firm and we're going to do this at the holding level and it's going to drip down to all their portfolio companies because they realize hey this talent is very powerful and if they build it once with superstars you know, uh, a hundred other mouths can eat off it. So, the the angles that you go into, while it's the same product, everything's got just a little bit of different flavor on it. I I I I talk I talk a lot about like if you say it's vanilla ice cream, and then, you know, if I speak to this person, they add cookies, it's cookies and cream, but it's still a vanilla ice cream base. And this person's chocolate chip, but it's still a vanilla ice cream base.

Leonard Murphy: Right.

Vin DeRobertis: You know, uh, butter pecan. I'm I'm picking all my my my parents flavors, even though I'm an old man now, too. But like, you know what I mean? But what I'm trying to say is you make a bunch of different flavors, but you have the vanilla ice cream base. So, I'm just speaking in the one area of trying to find what I think their best flavor is, but but it's all made of vanilla ice cream.

Leonard Murphy: Yeah.

Vin DeRobertis: And and and if you do that part right,

Leonard Murphy: Yeah.

Vin DeRobertis: You could have a bunch of different areas to land and explain. I think the exciting part is a bunch of different buyers that would never speak to someone previously. You know, when when you're selling reports, and don't get me wrong, there's still a lot of money to be made in reports. I still sell reports are are very eager to to say okay what is that and that that's pretty exciting. So AI does bring on change but it also brings on a lot of

Leonard Murphy: Oh, 100% 100%.

Vin DeRobertis: Opportunity.

Leonard Murphy: The Yeah, I I actually despite my as we're before the show talking about getting ready for the spring, um one of the things I Saturday morning I I have had a product concept in my head for a very long time that uh I never had the opportunity to uh even try and experiment with. Uh, and I sat down. I said, "By God, I'm going to spec this out and I'm going to build it." And literally within like 45 minutes, I had a working prototype of a very complex uh gamified kind of brand tracking solution that had been in the back of my mind for damn near 20 years, right?

Vin DeRobertis: No,

Leonard Murphy: But I could I didn't build it.

Vin DeRobertis: I

Leonard Murphy: I didn't know how to do that. It's not my skill set. Uh, and now I was able to at least get to a proof of concept,

Vin DeRobertis: Know.

Leonard Murphy: Right? Um, uh, a working beta or alpha. So to your point, the the unlock of technology, data, and vision, that human orchestration, human judgment component really is just revolutionary. Um, and I think that probably speaks to the the data piece. why I'm guessing that you're uh uh you you landed where you are. You had your choice of going to different businesses because I believe that the that truly data is the new oil and it is being valued like oil or at least getting there because it is what unlocks everything

Vin DeRobertis: Yeah,

Leonard Murphy: Else.

Vin DeRobertis: I that's it. Like we I like as a as a a company, I don't think we could move at the speed of I mean if you look at what Claude did in the last like two weeks, right?

Leonard Murphy: Yeah,

Vin DeRobertis: Like you can't keep up with it.

Leonard Murphy: It's safe.

Vin DeRobertis: And also you look at it and like a month ago would have been like, "Oh my god, it's amazing. They don't need to do anything else." and you two weeks later you're like I didn't even know that's possible and I can only imagine what April 15th is going to

Leonard Murphy: Yeah,

Vin DeRobertis: Show right you know what I mean besides tax day like what do you like what's going to happen in the next couple of weeks and and

Leonard Murphy: Right.

Vin DeRobertis: It's like the answer is like it's almost it moves so fast that in reality it's like let that let that part go we're going to have a lot of the same tools I was like but the data part is unique and if you could generate a first-party data source you control a lot more of the shots because you do have something pure that goes goes into to power data and like you know there's a there's a hard thing in our industry sometimes and it's obviously spoken about adn no nauseium just about data quality right and if you

Leonard Murphy: Yep.

Vin DeRobertis: Could bring in a good source of clean data that's not openly out there that is a unique asset right now understanding a ton of companies are going through the same challenges right I'm and I don't I think we're unique because we have people have our application is is intimate that you have to have people do it but like I fully understand the other part of it where with With everything out there with AI, it's hard to tell good from

Leonard Murphy: Yeah. Yeah.

Vin DeRobertis: Bad.

Leonard Murphy: Now, it's interesting because when you and I first met uh or just became aware of each other,

Vin DeRobertis: Rockhopper.

Leonard Murphy: Right?

Vin DeRobertis: Rockhopper.

Leonard Murphy: Uh well well yes fact Rock Hopper but then but then Gersner kind of brought us back

Vin DeRobertis: I remember I'm kidding.

Leonard Murphy: Together with your role at Savant.

Vin DeRobertis: Yeah.

Leonard Murphy: Yeah,

Vin DeRobertis: Of course.

Leonard Murphy: Of course Rock Hopper was infamous at ear awards. Um the uh so we won't go into all that.

Vin DeRobertis: Let's

Leonard Murphy: Uh so you were doing a lot of M&A uh at at uh at

Vin DeRobertis: Yeah,

Leonard Murphy: Savant and um and you had a reputation as being you know

Vin DeRobertis: Sure.

Leonard Murphy: Very very picky. So, and driving a hard bargain like there is a specific profile of company you were looking for and you weren't even going to talk about anything else and we don't take that any further. You know exactly what I mean. The uh but my my point is that experience of you know of being tasked with building an organization that was driven from from an acquisition standpoint um

Vin DeRobertis: Sure.

Leonard Murphy: and uh judicious use of funding and assets shall we say.

Vin DeRobertis: Yeah.

Leonard Murphy: Um I'm thanks

Vin DeRobertis: You're a great politician, Lenny, right? I just want to be very clear on you.

Leonard Murphy: The uh I know Roger too.

Vin DeRobertis: Yeah.

Leonard Murphy: So the

Vin DeRobertis: Yeah. I agree. Yeah. We have We have the same We had the same success plan.

Leonard Murphy: Um

Vin DeRobertis: If this was different, I didn't know that. And I think vice versa.
 
Leonard Murphy: But so I'm curious on that. So when you when you exit Savanta um and because of your experience, you know, obviously I I'm I'm curious on the calculation that went through your your head in saying based on all that I know, all that I have learned um both from just operationally and organizationally and financially as well as where the industry is going. Uh, did you know that you were looking for a company like Generation Lab or when when you saw it you thought that's what I'm looking for right there? How how'd that

Vin DeRobertis: Great question. You know, I I I'll say it went two ways.

Leonard Murphy: Go?

Vin DeRobertis: I'm not a researcher, and I'm sure you could tell by the first 20 minutes of this call, uh there's a good reason why I'm not a researcher, but like it's not in my DNA. And Savant, you know, which also I I want to say lovely things about here, um because it's it's true, right? we were able to buy great relationships at not to say rock bottom price, that's not fair, but at a really affordable uh price. So, if we wanted to get an MSA with certain big banks that would pretty much have told us,

Leonard Murphy: Mhm.

Vin DeRobertis: One bank told us like, "We'll make your life miserable." Uh, but we'll never fire you and they held their word, Lenny. They made a, you know what I mean? Very tough to deal with, but also like that was the value. So if you could acquire Fortune 500 clients that way, that's a really nice business to move quickly, right? And I I I after Savant, I left and I looked at, you know, I I I went to a couple of companies that if I was a researcher, I would have been interested in. I struggled to see where I added value. That's that's the best way to put it. Like if if you buy a 15 person research firm and the president is a retiring CEO and the retiring CEO wants to leave and then you have to take his shoes but you don't speak the same language as him. I I'm just sort of a layer of management,

Leonard Murphy: Yeah.

Vin DeRobertis: Right? Like I don't add value except that maybe I was able to write the check. And so I I wanted to look at something that was a little bit more in my DNA which again you know e- rewards for a long time great things to say about you know the people there. So there was a panel and then there was a product and I was like okay like I I get the I get the product roadmap.

Leonard Murphy: Mhm.

Vin DeRobertis: I I get where you're going with this. I also agree with that. I tried Lenny. I I you know I I was very fortunate that this worked out and and the team I work with Cyrus Matina and and Mosha are are fantastic. There's another company I looked at and I and I and I looked at trying to acquire on my own and the the gentleman who was towards the end of his career. He got a different offer at the end and he was he he goes I I congratulate him all the way because he did transact and it was just he had something great in front of him and my offer to be honest with you was not going to be great but it was going to be an offer and and you know we're buddies now and and we've seen each other and high-fived on the congratulations.

Leonard Murphy: Yep.

Vin DeRobertis: So everything's sort of lined up and uh you know I want to say I'm the gray-haired guy in the room even though I keep the gray short but it's a lot of gray and uh generation generation lab and verb like it's it's a good product because I understand it and we all play unique positions and um super smart team. That's the best way to put it. Super smart.

Leonard Murphy: Yeah. Well, I've when Yeah.

Vin DeRobertis: Yeah.

Leonard Murphy: I was exposed to them before you came along and and that was was definitely impressed uh with

Vin DeRobertis: Yeah.

Leonard Murphy: Them and and uh even though I had not spoken to the team, I was was aware through our our friends Ken and Elaine, right?

Vin DeRobertis: Yeah.

Leonard Murphy: Um yeah.

Vin DeRobertis: Yeah, of course.

Leonard Murphy: So uh so definitely that was the impression and and

Vin DeRobertis: Yeah.

Leonard Murphy: And I think this is interesting. They are not from research industry either, right? They they came from outside and they didn't know what they weren't bound by well this is the way it's always done. Instead they did something different. Um that I thought has been really really really cool. I would love to see that there the approach on the the generational lab side of the business expand outside of just the you know millennials and and uh and Gen Z folks. Um, not sure how if it was possible. I love the approach of how they've done

Vin DeRobertis: You know, we first of all,

Leonard Murphy: That.

Vin DeRobertis: Uh, Ken is very funny. I want to be very clear on that. Ken, he has a great sense of humor, right?

Leonard Murphy: Yes, it

Vin DeRobertis: Um, and the first time he emailed me, I ignored him and then he replied back and he goes,

Leonard Murphy: Has

Vin DeRobertis: "By the way, I was the banker that sold this company to our old holding company." I was like, "Well, that's like the best company we ever bought. I did the due diligence." he found the exact right chord to strike where I can't ignore this guy's email, which made me laugh. Um, you know, the one thing in in like our our panel and sampling product is that a lot of times the initial email goes to their university email, which again has a has a skew and a bias that no one's going to say that, but you can't fake your way in. Like Harvard's not going to give you a fake email address for you to make five bucks, right? So,

Leonard Murphy: It's true.

Vin DeRobertis: So like I have a layer of and I understand obviously it's it becomes a bit of a niche but by doing that I have real people right you you can't fake your way in again it's a sub 1% fraud issue where someone forwarded something and even that we clean out but the other other part that goes into it I'm known for something right I'm known for doing something unique and I can't sit in front of people and say I've got 100 million people globally which of course a lot of people saying they have access to traffic and and all the systems that go along with it. But like I have a pocket and there are jobs that come along that I'm uniquely qualified for. And sometimes it's nice to be known for something. So, you know,

Leonard Murphy: Yep.

Vin DeRobertis: I if you start in one area, you could always expand. If you say you do everything, then it's hard to really structure things down. Um, you know, where we're we're polling experts.

Leonard Murphy: Yep.

Vin DeRobertis: We are I always see we're cited on a bunch of things where I've never heard of the person and then you realize that someone on uh you know uh X re reexited or retweeted it. I don't Is it rex?

Leonard Murphy: I I I still say retweet.

Vin DeRobertis: Is that the right term?

Leonard Murphy: I think it's just repost, but I still say

Vin DeRobertis: Yeah. The first week I was there, we did a a poll and it got re reposted by Nikki Haley and Ronda

Leonard Murphy: Anyway.

Vin DeRobertis: Santis, you know, and also they also were posting how much they didn't like the data, but look, we take it. You know what I mean? So, I want to be very clear on that. But I was like, like that's an amazing grab, right?

Leonard Murphy: Sure.

Vin DeRobertis: Like and it's something you you you can't buy. But if you're going to be a random pollster or something like that, you're not going to get it. But if you say, you know, a slice, that's your jam, you know?

Leonard Murphy: 100% 100% and being an expert especially in in a difficult to reach population and let's be clear right that it is the uh uh and and I think that gen alpha uh gen

Vin DeRobertis: Correct.

Leonard Murphy: Z is going to be even worse so this my my kids are

Vin DeRobertis: That's right.

Leonard Murphy: Skeptical uh so they are But they they it's just interesting. I think it's going to get harder and harder to engage with uh with populations and we

Vin DeRobertis: Yeah.

Leonard Murphy: Have to find ways to meet them where they are and engage them on their terms and and yes find ways to to do that. So I will be conscious of your time as well as uh as the listeners. Um so put on your your uh get your crystal ball out then. Um you know here we are recording this on March 30th. Um, and yes, tomorrow, who knows, right? Claude Grock, whatever's going to come out with something from a technology standpoint that just, you know, but in terms of how do you see the progression of the industry as a whole from the value that it delivers? Um, what does that look like for you if you think a year out? Um, are we just going to be disintermediated by purely synthetic and you the big AI companies or uh is the discipline and uh and expertise that we bring going to merge with those solutions? Well, sorry, I'm not trying to lead the question.

Vin DeRobertis: Yes.

Leonard Murphy: I mean, that's kind of my my view, but what do you think?

Vin DeRobertis: You know, I know I I think that's a good question. I I'll add one funny point. When we did the press release of of starting here, the guy that founded the company, his name is Cyrus. And we were trying to figure out the term to use because there's I I don't want to say if you say real, a lot of people say real. And also we know we have a pocket of people and we know we're not synthetic, right? So we came up with the term anti-synthetic, which is an interesting term, right? Because in reality, well,

Leonard Murphy: Okay.
 
Vin DeRobertis: The anti-synthetic, the opposite is real. I was like, but right now at this point of time, is it is it is that the right term? And it's such a it's such a moving pace. Um, I love the fact there are more buyers in the insights industry. I I still think there is a need for a human for I could think of one thing right now that we've brought here

Leonard Murphy: Mhm.

Vin DeRobertis: And you looked at it and it came out of the system data wise it is perfect. It shows a data point that I believe we're the only company in the world that could do that's my opinion but it needed a human. It need it needed the last it needed the last two miles of the marathon. Needs a human because it tells a story, but it doesn't tell the story that if you get it, you could forward on to the CEO and say, "Your answer's on slide 12." There's a humanity part that the business still needs. And balancing that out is great.

Leonard Murphy: Yeah.

Vin DeRobertis: I think there are more buyers. I think how you sell and communicate your product right now is going to be in the the flavors of ice cream. It's it's one is chocolate chip, one is cookies and cream, one is cookie dough. But if you have the vanilla base or the chocolate base if you like chocolate more, I guess I'm a vanilla person. Um, you're you're you're going to have that level of of of of buy of selling power, right? Once you get my my whole thing is once you get into MSA, you want to sell to as many people as possible of that company, right? You get the MSA, that's signed, you take the CFL off,

Leonard Murphy: Right.

Vin DeRobertis: Now you can move around the cabin like like like the pilots say. And that should be the gold. And I think historically you were you were more in the insights or maybe you were in you were in you were in the marketing research or whatever we said. Now I say I'm a data technology company like how do I get the how do I speak in the term of the CIO
 
Leonard Murphy: There you go.

Vin DeRobertis: Who is not I'm not that technical of a person right how do I communicate in that language knowing I'm selling the same product just needs to be worded differently.

Leonard Murphy: Yeah. Yeah. No, that's a great point. That is a great point.

Vin DeRobertis: No.

Leonard Murphy: The uh I think we're actually my my thought and yours are are actually aligned. We we are as an industry, we're knowledge workers, right? That's how they talk about it.

Vin DeRobertis: Correct. That's how Microsoft calls us,

Leonard Murphy: And if you listen,

Vin DeRobertis: Right? That

Leonard Murphy: Right? And and okay,

Vin DeRobertis: Was

Leonard Murphy: That means we're doomed in the era of AI. And I reject that. That's b*******.

Vin DeRobertis: Yeah.

Leonard Murphy: The um uh I think not working with knowledge is valuable um but knowledge is generated by data and data you know is drives technology so for your point we're in the data technology business I I think that's that's true for the vast majority of the industry and the other piece

Vin DeRobertis: No.

Leonard Murphy: Is and then we turn that the the data into impact so and you know that's the service and uh and consultant side of the business so I I think It's interesting uh as things obviously as things progress from here. Um Vin, where can people find you?

Vin DeRobertis: Uh, so I I I've never had a social media account.

Leonard Murphy: Really, dude?

Vin DeRobertis: How about that?

Leonard Murphy: Wow, that's even LinkedIn.

Vin DeRobertis: Yeah. Oh, of LinkedIn. Yes. But I'm talking like I guess the personal one.

Leonard Murphy: Okay,

Vin DeRobertis: I think everyone has Twitter.

Leonard Murphy: that's

Vin DeRobertis: Yes, I've had LinkedIn. I guess I could say,

Leonard Murphy: LinkedIn.

Vin DeRobertis: But that's like a business one. I I I like I'm not I don't know, man. Like am I the point I'm going to take a picture of my salad and say, "Oh, OMG, look what I ate for lunch." Right? Like I don't know. I miss that window. And I feel like uh so LinkedIn,

Leonard Murphy: You're not missing much.

Vin DeRobertis: Yeah, LinkedIn uh email generationlab.org.

Leonard Murphy: Go ahead.

Vin DeRobertis: We're on CNBC a good amount with Verbai. So if you want to check us out, um you know, we we get a lot of good shoutouts worldwide exchange. Morgan Brennan's our buddy. So we're we're very lucky to have that relationship and partnership.

Leonard Murphy: Very cool, Vinn. Thank you. Uh, congratulations on all success. I'm sure that we will, uh, come back again relatively soon and check in on you and see how things are

Vin DeRobertis: Sounds great.

Leonard Murphy: Going.

Vin DeRobertis: Look forward to it. Thanks, Lenny. This was really uh generous of you,

Leonard Murphy: All right.

Vin DeRobertis: So I appreciate it.

Leonard Murphy: Oh, no. Thank you. All right.

Vin DeRobertis: One more thing before you hang out.

Leonard Murphy: Take care.

Vin DeRobertis: Can I come to your farm one day?

Leonard Murphy: Yes.

Vin DeRobertis: I'm happy to come. I got the

Leonard Murphy: That do it.

Vin DeRobertis: Overalls.

Leonard Murphy: You know what people don't really recognize, and I mentioned this, is we're on the Bourbon Trail. So,

Vin DeRobertis: Really?

Leonard Murphy: Oh yes. Oh yes. Kentucky. What? Like most of the the the biggest best distilleries in the world are all within like an hour of my house.

Vin DeRobertis: Lenny, that's the getaway. That's the getaway that you need to organize.

Leonard Murphy: So

Vin DeRobertis: I'm telling you, you could do Airbnb through IX or whatever. That's the one you got, man. That's the one you're going to get. People raise their

Leonard Murphy: Yeah,

Vin DeRobertis: hand.

Leonard Murphy: I think there's a business opportunity actually for the uh for the Amish um around me to they could be the taxi for folks,

Vin DeRobertis: Yeah.

Leonard Murphy: Right? To

Vin DeRobertis: R3 joins too. I can tell you that much.

Leonard Murphy: Uh All

Vin DeRobertis: If you want to get some research going,

Leonard Murphy: Right, Ben,

Vin DeRobertis: I appreciate anytime,

Leonard Murphy: Thanks so much. Really appreciate it.

Vin DeRobertis: Buddy.

Leonard Murphy: All right, bye bye.