Rob Wengel of Radius: Leading Insights Through AI Transformation

In this episode of the CEO Series, Rob Wengel joins Leonard Murphy to unpack what it really means to lead through one of the most transformative moments the insights industry has ever faced. From his early days in CPG to leading Radius Insights, Wengel reflects on the shift from process-driven research to a model powered by AI, human judgment, and trust. The conversation explores how organizations can move beyond “technology in search of a problem” and instead focus on outcomes, iteration, and impact—redefining how insights drive real business success.

Transcript

Leonard Murphy: Hello everybody. It's Lenny Murphy with another edition of the CEO series. Thank you for taking time out of your day to spend with myself and my guest. And today I am joined by a guy that I have known for for quite a few years and have really grown to uh to uh admire in many many ways. Um Rob Wangle, CEO of Bradius Insights. Rob, welcome.

Rob Wengel: Thank you,

Leonard Murphy: It's it's good to have you.

Rob Wengel: Eddie.

Leonard Murphy: So we you and I first connected actually if I recall correctly um uh a few years ago when you took over as uh as CEO of another company and but you had been around the industry forever before that I think. So, why don't we why don't we use that as the segue?

Rob Wengel: You think forever sounds long? I think we connected when I was leading Gut Check.

Leonard Murphy: Yes.

Rob Wengel: Uh, and in fact,

Leonard Murphy: Yes.

Rob Wengel: We surprised you when I I remember an email from you that said when Tuluna acquired Gut Check, you didn't see that coming,
 
Leonard Murphy: Yes.

Rob Wengel: But you completely get it.

Leonard Murphy: Yes. I remember that email as well.

Rob Wengel: So when when when Frederri and I can actually surprise the great Lenny

Leonard Murphy: Yep.

Rob Wengel: Murphy who who is a a forecaster of of all things insights

Leonard Murphy: Oh

Rob Wengel: That that's a that's

Leonard Murphy: Uh now you see audience this is why I like Rob.

Rob Wengel: Good.

Leonard Murphy: So yeah but let's let's step back. Why don't you tell the audience you know a little more about your background and uh and you know how you got to uh to

Rob Wengel: Okay.

Leonard Murphy: Radius Insights and then we'll spring off from

Rob Wengel: Yeah,

Leonard Murphy: There.

Rob Wengel: I will. Um, thank you for having me. I will say to start there's a lot of this in the background that's about leadership obviously and I think we'll be discussing leadership uh of an organization, leadership in the insights industry which has probably never been more important. Uh, but I actually go back to high school days where one of the lessons I was taught very early on is um, say thank you.  But if when we as leaders if we demonstrate appreciation um and I want to thank you Lenny not just for having me but you give a gift um to our industry um through the whole range of ways that you communicate to us keep us not just current but really thinking forward. So, I appreciate being on this, but more importantly, I think you've got a vast audience because you really deliver a service um that's invaluable. So, thank you for everything you do.

Leonard Murphy: Thank you,

Rob Wengel: Uh in terms of my background,

Leonard Murphy: Rob.

Rob Wengel: Um while my wife might disagree and my kids might disagree, the last thing I really want to talk about is me. I really much prefer talking about where where things are going. But let's have a little bit of conversation. So u from a career standpoint I've been in this industry for a while but when I say this industry um I started in Proctor and Gamble um uh so the foundation of my career out of university was Proctor and Gamble in their sales management program. I eventually went to um another CPG company uh that I started in sales management but moved over to marketing.

Leonard Murphy: Okay.

Rob Wengel: So I got to have the experience of leading marketing teams and leading sales teams um as uh a CPG brand uh branded company and I'm really cautious to not say client side versus agency side which it is a pet peeve and it's actually a trigger for me uh because I think as an industry we need not take sides that u yes there are inbrand clients who are trying to drive business and there are agencies, research agencies. Um, however, and this is one of the things you do particularly well is recognize like as an industry we are trying to um really elevate collectively. Um, and that that that intersection of what uh research providers be it whether they work for brands or they work for an agency do together is where the power happens. But I'll violate my rule. I did kind of start in the client side and and so the the first

Leonard Murphy: Okay.

Rob Wengel: 15 years of my career were um in marketing and sales leadership roles uh Proctor Tambrands Ben Kezer and then I joined IRI um now Circana uh in a strategic solutions group which was all about we have all this data how do we actually bring consultative services to our clients to bring the data alive. Um, which probably sounds pretty familiar to something that most of us are still trying to do this

Leonard Murphy: Mhm.

Rob Wengel: Today. U so I spent I won't bore you with my full resume. I spent considerable amount of time um with IRI TNS um a decade at Neielson. Uh my favorite part of my decade at Neielson while all the experiences were good was I led bases for the Americas for about five years. Um which uh across my experiences I had always been pretty versatile. I as I said I moved from sales to marketing within CPG. I moved across different parts of Neielson and IRI including leading advanced analytics and other practices. So I've kind of had a range of data analytics, consumer insights throughout my career. Um, but basis kind of is worth stopping on because what's become what part of my profession has become a passion is innovation. Um, and while some people might think of Bassy's as the new product sales forecasting company, uh, the mission for Bassy's actually before I got there and while I was there was actually more about how do we drive innovation success, not just forecasts. And, uh, I learned while I'd always done some innovation work,

Leonard Murphy: Yep.

Rob Wengel: I just learned a ton. um being able to engage with some of the biggest companies in the world, some of the biggest innovators in the world on what drives innovation success. And it's a bit of a tentpole event in my career in that um not only was I leading a large important organization that was important to um a lot of client success. Uh but what I was able to learn about innovation is not only applicable to is this new product or this new idea or this new concept going to be successful but it's a lesson I'm able to take and apply as a leader of an organization.

Leonard Murphy: Mhm.

Rob Wengel: So um the role of innovation um as a growth driver um is just so significant and it's kind of one of the milestones of I've enjoyed leading large organizations. I've enjoyed leading teams and working closely with our clients to drive success. Uh but innovation as a topic not only drives an individual brand's growth, it drives um companies, it drives markets, it drives economies when done right. Uh and so that is kind of a a standout moment. Um I spent a couple years in Canar um as well. And then fast forward after being in these bigger companies, I did um uh take over from the founder of Gutchek and to become the CEO of Gutch uh which was a fantastic experience. So I went from kind of the Neielson Canar world and some of the biggest companies in our industry to

Leonard Murphy: Yeah.

Rob Wengel: A boutiqueized company with 80 employees um a great range of clients and capabilities and I had just a ton of fun doing that. Um we built a great team. We became very innovative and then as I said we um transitioned into the Tuluna family and integrated into Tuluna. Uh following that um I helped a a startup former friends and colleagues from bases uh called WXY um which is essentially

Leonard Murphy: Yep.

Rob Wengel: The digitalization and automation of uh a sales forecasting process for for new products. Um and helped that get off the ground with a great team at Boxy and some really great clients. Um then fast forward to nine months ago, I joined I joined Radius. Uh, and I appreciate that this is about um discussions with CEOs. I am humbled by the fact that I've got that title and um I I I don't like to use that title a lot. So when people ask me what what I do, I say I I I get to work with and lead a really great team at Radius.

Leonard Murphy: Took a position. People ask me, "What do I do for a living?" I just say, "I help people." Um, which they probably think that like I'm in the mafia or something, right? But the uh but I I get that. and at Radius. So when I think about Radius traditionally was one of those companies that kind of sat outside of the traditional research industry, right? The the company that Chip built um over the you didn't see them at events say conferences

Rob Wengel: Ready?

Leonard Murphy: And you know kind of going through through all of that. they were very specialized around if I recall correctly innovation was one of the key focus areas of uh of radius and then uh you did private equity deal and started acquiring different assets and and integrating those before you came and that's continued which is an innovative process in itself. So, what has that been like to come into, you know, a business that was already under a process of transformation um while during one of potentially one of the most disruptive eras that we've ever experienced um uh and taking that that innovation frame that you have uh and you know, all right, we got to put these pieces together in a new way to unlock new value because the the game has just changed in some ways. What has that been like?

Rob Wengel: Yeah. So, for those who don't know Radius, well, um Chip Listister, who you mentioned, uh led the firm for I want to say 27 or 28 years. Um and uh with a great team. Um, and it was it's an organization that is a genuinely bespoke strategic primary research firm built around great quantitative research, advanced analytics, qualitative research and and um a blending of all of those things to genuinely say what's your problem? What are you trying to do to drive brand growth and business growth and how can we help you? So the the real definition of a custom research firm, not templated, um but let's engage with clients on what their real issues are and let's figure out together how to best solve them with a range of methods and capabilities um and have been trusted by many very big clients fortune fortune 500 um across the world and across a whole range of industry sectors with really nice diversification of industry sectors. for a long time. Uh but it what I found when I got to the organization is something that we've kind of phrased we've been trusted quietly that in some ways maybe one of the most exciting things is the clients who know us really value our work. It makes an impact on them and they stick with us. Um and when if they go from one company to the next, they often take it take us along the journey because we do good work. So like anything good in innovation, you can have the best idea in the world, the best concept in the world, but ultimately that product experience. Are we delivering the experience and the impact that makes us worth repeating? Um, and that was kind of the foundation of of the Radius business, which even before private equity was built mostly organically, but with some small tuckin acquisitions over multiple years that expanded sector coverage and geographic coverage. Uh fast forward to 22 um Star Mountain Capital who's a small to midcap um private equity uh company acquired the company uh and with that backing uh Chip and the team were able to accelerate in expanding our business um first geographically with an acquisition of Strive which was a great boutique consultative research firm in London. Um and then about a year and a half ago with two acquisitions that expanded our sector coverage.  Uh Aluminos, which really um gives us great strength in the technology sector. Um both B TOC and B2B, but the real real um expertise in B2B research and tech and then Seven Sense who

Leonard Murphy: Yep.

Rob Wengel: The primary business is serving the auto industry. Um and u so those all those businesses have really kind of come together. um they had not been integrated. Uh they were really kind of operating as separate business units. And one of the things we have been doing is figuring out for the benefit of our clients, how do you bring the best of all these business units together? Um and really become one radius, not for selfish reasons, but one radius for how do we really bring benefit to the clients we serve by taking the best of everything this uh company now offers. Um, and what I found when I got here was there are different cultures, there are different levels of expertise and methods serving different sectors, but there was a common set of values. Um, and give me a group of very talented people with really meaningful, deep client relationships and a common set of values and we can build anything. So,

Leonard Murphy: Yep.

Rob Wengel: What we've done as a leadership team is said, how do we do that? How do we become one radius that really can navigate everything that that is going on transformationally? Um, and not only how do we navigate it for ourselves, but how do we navigate it in partnership with our clients that uh as the world is transforming u our our clients are under unusual degrees of pressure to transform, to think differently, to act differently. You know, we have all heard that almost everyone's being asked to do more with less. Uh do more through all kinds of restructure. So, one of our edicts is we need to figure out how to navigate the the transformation that's underway, but we need to be able to lead our clients through it and partner with our clients um in a way that really keeps the focus on what matters most, which is are we delivering insights that are clearly actionable that you can clearly drive a real outcome from? Not just insights for the sake of insights, but insights that drive real outcomes. So, we're working diligently. We think we're doing really great work with a lot of clients and we'll continue to try to figure out how we transform. Fast forward, um, we did evaluate, we were a somewhat traditional bespoke research firm doing great work, but we were not the most innovative firm in the world, um, if I'm being honest. And uh we we see where the world is going and we said to be a growth company who can contribute to these clients who have trusted us quietly for so many years, we need to accelerate how we innovate. Um and we've been doing some of our own organic innovation. Uh but we recognized that the best way to really accelerate where to go was an additional acquisition. So we um so One Strategy Studio, a Londonbased firm has joined our family uh effective the beginning of February. So it's about uh six weeks in uh to One Strategy being a part of the Radius company. Um, and we couldn't be more excited. And uh, when we went out into the marketplace to say, "We know there's certain things we can build ourselves, but gosh, we'll we're going to serve our clients much better if we, um, acquire something that's already effective, leveraging AI, leveraging technology. We looked at a lot of uh, solutions and a lot of companies. Um and as you know probably better than most there are some fabulous companies some great early stage companies some other companies who've kind of actually transformed themselves many of them are kind of a expert at particular point solutions um and

Leonard Murphy: Mhm.

Rob Wengel: Many of them are developing fantastic tools. What we were looking for was something that actually looked very familiar to us and looked familiar to our clients. And what we found in one strategy was a firm that was built from scratch um about two and a half years ago um built on the foundations of what is great endto-end strategic research look like if you build the AI models around best practices to deliver that.

Leonard Murphy: What's

Rob Wengel: So in lie of we can do great synthetic persona work or we can do

Leonard Murphy: This?

Rob Wengel: Great AI moderated qual it's what is the end to end insights workflow that drives brand repositioning that drives um a where to play um assessment of the market that drives how to win and innovation ideas and concepts and new messaging claims but the strategic kind of research that looks a lot like what Radius has on for 30 plus years. Um what one strategy did is they built from scratch um a series of AI models that are human-led by brand strategists to do custom strategic research. Um and so it's been a really nice fit because one strategy essentially does what Radius does but just does it very differently.

Leonard Murphy: Yeah.

Rob Wengel: Um so that's part of how we're navigating transformation.

Leonard Murphy: You know, there's a theme that kind of runs throughout there and I I've been thinking about the how our ecosystem, the market is evolving and uh in light of the larger you know changes from technology and and the way I've been thinking about this is that effectively there's kind of an architecture layer which is technology. So, right and that let's just call that AI, right? For lack of a better term at the moment. It's going to get there one way or the other. The uh that's important because it facilitates process, right? It unlocks capabilities and it gets to do all types of cool stuff that we couldn't do before because it's just easier. Okay. The but then there's the orchestration layer and that is understanding how these pieces fit. what's the right tool, the right solution for the right uh the right problem and then the judgment layer and the judgment layer is absolutely the human layer and is dependent on trust. So from a client standpoint, so I think about your your journey within Radius and the positioning, I would posit to say that you're an example of of a company that uh is leveraging that key making that transformation to moving away from process, right? We we understand best practices of process that produce good results. But focusing on leveraging your trust as the judgment layer in the orchestration layer and because ultimately that's what delivers real value. It's not process. Process is an efficiency component certainly is valuable, right? Time, cost, you know, all of those things, but it's not nearly as valuable as impact. And to produce impact requires judgment and trust. So is that are you thinking about it kind of along those lines that this is the the shift that we have to make is away from kind of a cost plus traditional data collection plus you know

Rob Wengel: Yeah.

Leonard Murphy: Component which is just part of the business model that we we had evolved over years to something now that is valuebased fundamentally um on good thinking and trust and leveraging that while everything underneath is kind of going through this transformational process right we'll put in what's fit for purpose as it evolves evolves and gets to there where it makes sure that it's not degrading the trust component that you have because it's, you know, not fully baked or or snake oil or something. Anyway, is that something that you're thinking

Rob Wengel: Yeah, it it resonates. Um, and I'll I'll start by saying we've all seen when

Leonard Murphy: About?

Rob Wengel: New technologies come out that there's a mass race whether you follow the Gartner hype cycle or whichever whichever indicator you like to look at. There's a mad race to use technology. And coming back to my innovation roots, too often we still see technology in search of a problem. Um, and the way we're trying to navigate this is starting from the roots of exactly what you've described that this all comes down to helping clients deliver bigger,

Leonard Murphy: Mhm.

Rob Wengel: Better ideas, bigger, better outcomes, and help them make their decisions with greater confidence. And that's what Radius has always stood for through the lens of traditional primary research techniques. And what we love about what one strategy now brings to us is a very similar mindset. It's here are all the use cases,

Leonard Murphy: Yep.

Rob Wengel: Here are the problems you're trying to solve. And part of the the the marketing theme that one strategy has used is it's about unleashing your warrior hero. and how do you leverage um these great AI models that are AI assistance to really unleash your full capability as an insights professional and your full capability as a brand and as a company.

Leonard Murphy: Mhm.

Rob Wengel: Uh so it really is thinking in an outcome first way um as opposed to a

Leonard Murphy: Yep.

Rob Wengel: Technology first way. Um and in fact we have a lot of debates um in as we talk about the positioning because what it it does enable us to do very strategic research that typically would have taken weeks and weeks and months that we're now able to do strategic research in hours and days. Um and but it's also changing the way we're able to work with clients.

Leonard Murphy: Yep.

Rob Wengel: Um because the research is able to be conducted in a strategic way so rapidly it allows for genuine iteration that the idea of agility.

Leonard Murphy: Yep.

Rob Wengel: We all talk about being agile. A lot of companies say that they've got an agile process whether it be around creative brand positioning uh innovation

Leonard Murphy: Right. Well, Gutch Check uh coined that term.

Rob Wengel: But yes yes they

Leonard Murphy: I remember Matt like we're the agile leader.

Rob Wengel: Did but this the so it's not just about a new way

Leonard Murphy: Yes.

Rob Wengel: Of getting the insights is actually unleashing a new way of working that allows us to

Leonard Murphy: Yep.

Rob Wengel: Really iterate like okay that's not exactly what you were trying to achieve imagine you you you run a traditional big survey in a A&U a segmentation whatever it be might be you get the results you know six weeks later eight weeks later you look at and say gosh based on what I'm saying I wish I'd asked the following 20 questions so either you go back into field and evolve the survey or you just say it is what it is it's good enough the the what we've built is allowing us to actually say oh there what you just learned actually opens up new questions Let's go back and ask it. Let's keep asking. So, uh the reason we we actually used to say we go from brief to breakthrough in hours. While we can do that, we don't say that anymore because while we can do that, we we get to the iteration phase of let's actually give ourselves a couple weeks to really work with

Leonard Murphy: Is

Rob Wengel: This to really nail the right opportunity spaces to pursue,

Leonard Murphy: This

Rob Wengel: the right ideas, the right concepts, the right messages. Um, so it's just it's so powerful and I will say um a leadership moment that I'll I'll take a little bit of credit for the the team that um from one strategy that is complimenting a really great team at Radius. Uh Jonathan Williams and John Wakefield are the two co-founders. Camila Puh is the um managing director. What we've done is Jonathan and John are inventors. So we've actually very quickly they've they've been a part of our company for six weeks. Um very quickly said Camila runs the business but Jonathan John go create the lab.

Leonard Murphy: Yeah.

Rob Wengel: So in addition to what already exists as a capability of one strategy you guys are fantastic inventors. Technology is moving so quickly. Our industry is transforming so quickly. We're you and a few other key members of the Radius team are going into the lab to be kind of our always on innovation engine. Um because what was great yesterday is no longer going to be great tomorrow. And it's funny I I think of uh there's a Jeff Bezos quote about u

Leonard Murphy: Yeah.

Rob Wengel: Humans having an insatiable appetite for a better way and yesterday's wow becomes today's ordinary.

Leonard Murphy: Yep.

Rob Wengel: Um, and I think you and I are both experiencing um, in our in my entire career, I've never seen the transformation happening at the pace that's happening right now. Um, so the ability for us to stay on the forefront of that, um, and and take what was a delighter yesterday and is now table stakes and make sure we're

Leonard Murphy: Yep.

Rob Wengel: Finding the next delighter, um, is really a key to what we're trying to do to grow um,
 
Leonard Murphy: Yeah.

Rob Wengel: So that our clients can navigate the transformational

Leonard Murphy: Yeah.

Rob Wengel: World.

Leonard Murphy: I I love that. And the I mean thinking just even for myself and I think this this equates and we'll longwinded way of getting to it to a point. The uh I I am fundamentally a consultant, right? that it I I make money from my brain.

Rob Wengel: I

Leonard Murphy: As faulty as that may be, but that but that is how I feed my family.

Rob Wengel: Thought it was I thought you made money from your radio voice, but go

Leonard Murphy: Oh, you know, I wish. But the uh I'll clone that and we'll we'll license it out now.

Rob Wengel: Ahead.

Leonard Murphy: But the uh um and it's interesting to because I think so often just as as a species we get caught up in thinking about time as the determinative of value. And so fundamentally that means translates into process. And we are in an era where process is no longer a barrier. So process for virtually anything particularly for knowledge workers um is now it's commodity right there. I mean it's just it's changing rapidly and and uh it it cannot be the value driver. So the the value driver must be based upon expertise, IP, judgment, trust, you know, those things. But yet from a business standpoint, how do you scale that, right? Um, and I am increasingly convinced that the era of products in our industry, the way we've thought about, particularly SAS, it's gone. the there there is not a single piece of technology that cannot be duplicated within a few hours. Last night, just to give for example, we're looking through the new grit data. I got raw cross tabs and I thought, hm, I wonder if I load this up into uh into claude and it's making a dashboard for me. 12 minutes later I had the coolest damn dashboard you know you've ever seen where and literally I'm

Rob Wengel: What?

Leonard Murphy: Thinking a month ago literally a month ago right I would have had to use a dashboard platform that I would pay you know a significant amount of money for and it would be a pain in the ass no matter what the wizards are to kind of load it and format it and get it all to where you know it needed to be and that was state-of-the-art just you know a few weeks ago to utilize those those solutions I I have an infinitely customizable solution now at my fingertips that I it does not require any technical expertise. I just needs to be able to direct it for for the outcome standpoint. So my long-winded way of getting is you're thinking about Radius now the that idea of having an internal innovation lab kind of drinking your own Kool-Aid, right? we're going to iterate and we're going to keep building and we're going to do that not necessarily because you're going to develop a new product per se and maybe there is maybe there's a way to productize IP and D definitely there's a way to productize data unique data assets but the but to stay a breast so that you can really focus on what matters which is judgment and impact for your clients and is that the is that where you see the future going to continue to have the steady innovation around process and tools and technologies to unlock more value so that your people can do what they do best which is think about asking the right question to uh get the right answer to the business issue to drive performance for your brands for your clients.

Rob Wengel: Yes. Yeah.

Leonard Murphy: Yeah.

Rob Wengel: And your your earlier sentiment around kind of the the foundational architecture and there's kind of an application layer um and there is a u the use of judgment and expertise. That is 100% what we're trying to do is we have in all parts of Radius the that consistent foundation of very talented seasoned research experts um that we we kind of like the term boutique at scale where we have 225 employees so we're big enough to offer a lot of resources and capabilities but we're small enough to still be agile and when we work with our clients they get a seasoned expert um and that was one of the big lessons that once on strategy learn. originally we're going to build can we build an agency that is completely um agentic

Leonard Murphy: Yep. Yep.

Rob Wengel: And they quickly realized that the value is in exactly what you just described Lenny which is if we put really smart brand strategists um who know how to solve the the challenges our clients face and we let them guide the research assistants that have been created in the models. Um then we it just is it really is a multiplier.

Leonard Murphy: Yeah.

Rob Wengel: It is a multiplier effect of I've been um humbled by the intelligence of people from aluminos and radius and seven sense and strive who all form kind of radius before one strategy joined. They are smart. They are client centric. They know how research can drive activation and impact. And now we've just given them the freedom um to to really unlock that in a way that they just never had due to speed is an

Leonard Murphy: Yeah.

Rob Wengel: Enabler uh because it allows for iteration because it allows to really make sure we

Leonard Murphy: Mhm.

Rob Wengel: Get the answers right so everyone is making confident decisions. Uh but it you've you've nailed it. it. Uh I think what will be interesting is uh and you're having lots of conversation like this is everyone's built muscles around the process. Everyone's built muscles on how how do I write the best questionnaire? How do I write the best discussion guide? How do I write the best report? Um, and it will be um those people who realize that we've unlocked the ability to to use your brain more than ever because we've taken those more uh functional elements of the process and automate them are are going to be highly successful. And for everyone who's worried about what the future holds,

Leonard Murphy: Yep.

Rob Wengel: Uh we this idea of unleashing potential um is so true.

Leonard Murphy: I

Rob Wengel: Uh the all the things we always hoped we could do.

Leonard Murphy: Yes.

Rob Wengel: I go back. So, I'm gonna take this all the way back to I forgot I forgot what we called it, but when I was at IRI in the late 90s, they actually had an kind of automation tool like what if we could there was a a brand version, a sales version. It was kind of this highly templated feed data into it and it tells you kind of what are your duts and what should you go do about it, but it was really flawed, but it was the right idea. We're actually now able to do that.

Leonard Murphy: Yep.

Rob Wengel: We're actually uh we can create the brand strategy assistant for every brand manager as they're going to brand planning. How do I look at my segmentation in a living breathing way? How do I look at my brand positioning? As I do my annual planning, um we are able to create a living breathing assistant for them that um is just incredibly powerful.

Leonard Murphy: Yeah. Yeah. It's I was actually have the same conversation with my wife earlier today. the similarly of the uh I believe that there there is disruption in our industry in the world right the I mean we we see the you know the issues around uh developers people in IT you know their jobs being outsourced happened to my son-in-law um who who thankfully just found a new job in uh in IT security which is still a big demand right but point is I feel that that that that is real but the potential to unlock creativity. I think we're going to see an explosion of entrepreneurs um uh both kind of digital solution uh type of of things but also real world um that levels the playing field across the board. Um the because the dynamics are there, the marketplace dynamics, you know, we have Shopify and Etsy and you know, yada yada yada, but we also have people that are coding zero human companies, right? Uh that are creating new solutions that you know, all right, you get a thousand people licensing this cool little piece of tech that uh that you built for, you know, hundred bucks a month, that ain't a bad lifestyle business, right, to uh to do that. And I think we're going to see more and more of that emerging um with this explosion of creativity of unrivaled ingenuity um which is are those human factors right the intuition ingenuity creativity um judgment uh and then it's that orchestration component so I could imagine a company like like Radius and I sus suspect that you're looking at this of like okay we're not going to necessarily could we build our own, you know, AI moderated platform. Yep, you could. You know, the uh but rather can we just orchestrate to make sure we're getting the best of solutions that so we could focus on the stuff that we do and there may may come
 
Rob Wengel: Mhm.

Leonard Murphy: A time where from a business standpoint it makes sense. Yeah, we want to own that because it's you know creating ARR and you know all that good stuff. Fine. But I don't think the strategy can be fun for research companies anymore can fundamentally be based on uh on owning process. It must be based on unleashing creativity and impact. And it sounds like you're engineering that within the business. And that's just very cool and

Rob Wengel: Absolutely. And look,

Leonard Murphy: Exciting.

Rob Wengel: I uh I'd be completely disingenuous if I didn't say it's a very difficult time to be a leader because the world is transforming at a rate and pace none of us have ever seen before.

Leonard Murphy: Yeah.

Rob Wengel: Uh and and I think that will accelerate.

Leonard Murphy: Yeah.

Rob Wengel: Um so for some of us it's scary. It's scary. For a lot of our people it's scary and how we help guide them through this. At the same time, it's the most exciting opportunity I've ever seen in my entire career. Uh because I do think it allows us to let smart people do really smart things. And and it's it's funny. We have a a new class of recent university grads.

Leonard Murphy: Yep.

Rob Wengel: I spent some time with them yesterday and they asked me for advice and I a couple pieces of advice. One was always be curious. It's never been more critical. to you have to be adaptable that u even again I have great respect for my my new partner Jonathan Williams um and John Wakefield in the lab um and there as you said things that they couldn't even do a month ago that they're able to now do is just extraordinary so you got to be adaptable u you have to still be founded on the same principles though and that's if you've got principles of client centricity and collaboration ation and a growth mindset um and being team players and the the principles that any really good organization have if you kind of leverage those but that being curious being adaptable have a growth mindset that the the what got us here is not what's going to get us there. I just we we just moved one of our leaders into a new role and we were talking about her her her job description. I said, "This is what it is today, but three months from now, be ready. The job's changing. And six months from now, it's changing." So, as leaders, couldn't be more excited about what we can do.

Leonard Murphy: Yeah.

Rob Wengel: How we bring our teams along, how we do this in a way with our clients that um that the the train the head car is not so far ahead of the rest of the train that uh that we lose it um is is part of the transformation we have to navigate. Um, so it it's great and Lenny, you you you're such a good thinker and and you've been helpful to us and in

Leonard Murphy: Well,

Rob Wengel: This

Leonard Murphy: Thanks, Rob. I appreciate that. It it I mean it Yeah. What do I do for a living? I help people. Um and the I don't mean that to it's building on what you said. What's what's a skill set right how what's a mindset that as leaders we have to think about right and you know yes we have to manage businesses and P&Ls we have investors and sure all of those things are absolutely there but fundamentally if we're not addressing a problem then we're not going to be successful and the ability to think through you know what is the problem and be creative in how we solve that in this period of transformation while also having access to tools that decrease the barrier to entry the friction to solve the It's really exciting, right? It's it's there's there's so many cool things that we could do. Um too many cool things actually. Uh, sometimes I'm my head's like, you

Rob Wengel: And and I will for anyone who's listening I will invite our partners in

Leonard Murphy: Know,

Rob Wengel: Because we are building the agency of the future um and we're doing a bit of a listening tour. We've been talking to a number of insights leaders um in clients to understand really what what are they trying to do and this I'll come back to one of my earlier comments. I hate client side versus agency side. We are an insights industry trying to drive brand and business growth uh

Leonard Murphy: Mhm.

Rob Wengel: Through bringing the human to the center of decision- making and and developing better ideas. So I invite anyone who wants to talk about what the agency of the future looks like. Um, we have a lot of great supplier partners uh who supply us who we welcome to the table in that conversation as well as our clients.

Leonard Murphy: Well, that's probably a good segue into the the end here, uh, Rob, because that's you actually, without me even prompting, you you touched on all the themes and topics that I would normally, uh, want to touch on. So, uh, to follow up on that last statement, how can people find you? Where's Yeah.

Rob Wengel: Um Rwangle at radiusinsights.com

Leonard Murphy: You want to give out your email uh or

Rob Wengel: Or go to our website radiusinsights.com or just uh I'm the

Leonard Murphy: Whatever.

Rob Wengel: Tall guy who will be at the conferences I'll see at Cork Chicago or uh or or others.
 
Leonard Murphy: Well, you're going to be at IDC, right? So, North America,

Rob Wengel: I might not be

Leonard Murphy: Rob.

Rob Wengel: There.

Leonard Murphy: Okay. Now, we're gonna have to end the interview. Um, uh,

Rob Wengel: It might have been a conflict.

Leonard Murphy: That's a whole other conversation. I actually I I have not said this publicly.

Rob Wengel: Sorry.

Leonard Murphy: It actually is for me, too. My my youngest daughter has a, uh, a dance uh competition that weekend in uh, in Chattanooga, and I can't be in two places at once.

Rob Wengel: See, now don't you feel guilty for making me feel

Leonard Murphy: And my my No, no,

Rob Wengel: Guilty.

Leonard Murphy: Because you didn't say that your daughter had a dance competition, so I'm I'm I'm you know, I'm assuming your excuse is not as good as mine.

Rob Wengel: There you

Leonard Murphy: Um uh anything?

Rob Wengel: Go.

Leonard Murphy: This has been fantastic, Rob. Thank you. Um truly, thank you. It's it's a great conversation. I was looking forward to it. I think our listeners will enjoy it as well. Is there anything else that you want to share before we wrap up and say goodbye?

Rob Wengel: I will I I will close on we talked a lot about technology. Um this still all comes down to people and so your comment that you see yourself as helping people uh whether it's the people we work with every day. Um we're arguably more importantly the people that we try to bring to life uh to benefit the decisions we're making. Uh let's not lose lose that that uh this is all about understanding people um to to drive to better

Leonard Murphy: Yep. 100%. Years ago,

Rob Wengel: Places.

Leonard Murphy: Uh I'll I'll wrap this. I was actually being recruited by Nielsson to uh for a role in uh Middle East North Africa and they flew me to Cairo and I'd spent time with them for some big event. Anyway, the one of the SVPs and I forget his name now, but he took me aside. He said, "Lenna, do you know what we sell?" This sounds like a trick question, So um you tell me what do we sell. He said, "We sell success." You know, everything else is just the how, right? But the product is success. And to your point, I think when we boil it down that way of being of service to to others, it's helping them be successful with whatever that may be, whether it's our kids or, you know, my spouse or my neighbors or my employees or my uh my clients, whatever. It all comes down to how do I help you be successful in life?

Rob Wengel: That's exactly right.

Leonard Murphy: And yeah, I hope more people embrace that.

Rob Wengel: Well said.

Leonard Murphy: All right, thank you.

Rob Wengel: Thank you.

Leonard Murphy: So, there is our we're going to end on that inspirational note, Rob. Thank you so much. Um really appreciate it and uh thank you to our listeners for uh coming in so Rob and I had an excuse to have this conversation and that's it for this edition of the CEO series. Bye-bye. Thank you.