Putting Patients at the Center: Konovo CEO Tal Rosenberg on AI, Data, and Healthcare Insights

In this CEO Series conversation, Leonard “Lenny” Murphy sits down with Tal Rosenberg, CEO of Konovo, to explore how healthcare insights are evolving at the intersection of data, technology, and AI. Rosenberg traces his career across life sciences, real-world data, and private equity–backed growth, and explains how legacy businesses like InCrowd, SHG, and GlocalMind were unified into the Konovo intelligent platform.

He and Lenny dig into the challenge of truly elevating patient and physician voices while navigating regulation, privacy, and rapidly shifting market forces. Rosenberg shares how Konovo aims to be the “Amazon” of healthcare audiences—connecting validated global HCPs and patients with tools that accelerate primary research and link it to secondary data.

They also discuss AI’s role in efficiency and insight generation, why data quality is now literally a life-or-death issue, Konovo’s partner-first strategy (including its Doximity partnership and new Survey Studio), and Rosenberg’s leadership philosophy: hire smart, kind people who get things done, lead with integrity, and make decisions for customers and the company—not ego.

 

Transcript

Leonard Murphy: Hello everybody. It's Lenny Murphy with another edition of the CEO series interview and I am joined today by Tal Rosenberg who is the CEO of Konovo. Welcome Tal.

Tal Rosenberg: It's great to be here, Lenny. Thank you for having me.

Leonard Murphy: It's great to have you here. Uh this is our our first time talking although it's it's kind of weird because I have uh a long affinity and history with the seed companies uh that started Konovo uh particularly in crowd uh back in the day being good buddies with Janet Coslo, Kathleen Polos and Diane Hayes. found out to them the uh the founders um as they were trying to build this this cool little scrappy startup of uh using micros surveys for uh healthcare research which people wait no you pay a physician 100 bucks and you talk to them for 30 minutes uh if you're lucky so different model uh and then when uh when Apollo came in Dan Fitzgerald uh with private equity with uh with building the business and acquiring more capabilities so I'm really looking forward to uh now hearing about the vision that you've been laying out and the strategy that you've been laying out now that it's Konovo and a much larger player. Uh because it's kind of like old home week but with new faces. So uh now that's your cue.

Tal Rosenberg: Yeah.

Leonard Murphy: Tell us your origin story. Tell and then we'll get into the where the business is today.
Tal Rosenberg: Yeah. Thanks, Danny. So, it's exactly 13 months on the dot. Uh, and I have to say I'm having the most fun I've ever had in my career. And it's this interesting um contradiction between I feel like I just got here yesterday. Uh, and at the same time as if I've been here forever. A lot of great things, a lot of excitement. By way of an introduction though um Tal Rosenberg chief executive officer here at Konovo um I spent my entire career with life sciences always on the intersection of data and technology about a dozen of those years with Iuvia uh built what is known as Ivia technologies. Short story of zero to a billion in 12 years. Um not in a straight line. Um great partnerships with the likes of Salesforce and AWS and others.

Tal Rosenberg: Um fair bit of M&A and a ton of organic growth really a tremendous amount of run and a lot of fun and um um then wanted to get closer to private equity uh wanted to go back to small and joined an incredible small startup by the name of data vent and then for the following four years uh built what is today the largest real world data ecosystem uh out there in healthcare uh tremendous run incredible team

Leonard Murphy: Very cool.

Tal Rosenberg: And and a ton of fun and uh then Frasier your healthcare partners uh tapped me on the shoulder and talked to me about this exciting opportunity and here we are today.

Leonard Murphy: Yeah, small little company uh so the the perspective.

Tal Rosenberg: Yes. Yes. Well, when I joined uh Ivia, we were 5,000 people. Uh when when I left Ivia, my team was 5,000 people, you know, in a in a conglomerate. Yeah. An S&P 500 conglomerate. Uh, still an incredible company, incredible place, a lot of good friends there. Um, set me up for all the things I do today.

Leonard Murphy: Yeah.

Tal Rosenberg: How about that?

Leonard Murphy: Yeah. Well, so, uh, dots going off and connecting to my own head, uh, because I'm sure you could talk through this from a my perspective, uh, over the years of when we think about unlocking data for, uh, any category, life sciences, healthcare is the tough one.

Tal Rosenberg: Yeah.

Leonard Murphy: Uh the one that can benefit arguably the most in so many ways, but you know because regulatory, privacy, you know, all of those those components, especially at the patient level, uh just always seems like huge challenges in uh in getting to the point where the value creation really is via data. Um so is it too much of a leap to say that part of what attracted you then to uh this journey with Konovo is seeing that opportunity to do something that is related as you've done with with data ben with unlocking more value creation to solve that that data utility problem within life sciences and other categories.

Tal Rosenberg: Yeah. Yeah. I think the short answer is yes. I think what what's underneath it there there's a there's a lot there. Um at the end of the day, everyone's talking about putting patient in the center and everyone's talking about listening to the customer. uh question is are we really doing it and are we doing it in the most efficient way and part of what attracted me u to this part of the industry market research which was new to me is really

Leonard Murphy: Mhm.

Tal Rosenberg: how do you really elevate the voice of the customer how do you elevate the voice of uh the physician who's caring for uh for the end customer right being the patient how do you do this in the most uh effective way I think the the other is you know the data was always there um the question is how do you get to it how do you get to it in the fastest possible way. And how do you make sure that you inject that data, put it in the hands of those decision makers, right? To make decisions about pricing and market access and and all the things that are so important to actually put therapies in the hands of that those that need them before. And that was a big attraction to to this opportunity. Market research by and large have been conducting themselves uh pretty much in the same way for many many years. And while some of the technological innovation has been there, not everyone really took full advantage of that uh and hence kind of the opportunity. How do you really bring uh some of the innovation to this industry which inquired quite honestly have kind of dipped their toes in in it and but how do you do that at scale? How do you do this globally is uh kind of what what was exciting for me.

Leonard Murphy: Yeah. Well, and during a period of of massive disruption that's been going on for a while, right? Obviously, we had the pandemic and the implications around that regarding healthcare. Um, then along came AI, right? and the uh as much of a so much potential but also so much kind of what aspects uh and now a very different regulatory environment. uh you know the political and and social components that you know changing as well. And uh so you probably have your your hands full in terms of helping clients make sense of you know rapidly changing dynamics at a kind of a macro level while also exploring what new opportunities for uh for Konovo.

Tal Rosenberg: Yeah.

Leonard Murphy: So

Tal Rosenberg: Yeah. We definitely have our hands full. Uh and there's a lot to navigate. Uh not just for us as a business, but for us as an industry. Um I think that the opportunity is that with all this uncertainty and and all the um shifting dynamics, the world needs better guidance, more insight and more capable research, right? Again, connecting into the the voices of the patients and um and the doctors, the nurse practitioners, etc. So, and that's and that's really where where we're spending our time.

Leonard Murphy: Sure.

Tal Rosenberg: Quite honestly, there are things that are not in our control and I try not to worry about them. uh what tweet will come tomorrow morning is not something that keeps me. Uh at the same time there's plenty in our control and there's plenty that our customers are relying on us to kind of hold their hand and to partner with them uh navigate together if you will the the land of of uncertainty uh and just focus on what matters the most which is how do we treat patients? How do we make sure we accelerate research? you know, mentioned COVID. What CO taught us all is that if we have a goal in mind, we can actually get there. We can get there uh very fast or at least much faster than than we used to. I the approval of of those precious vaccines uh in a record time, right? Versus the long uh cumbersome full of friction process of clinical trials. Nevertheless, uh talking about commercialization, right? we've taken what usually takes a decade and we've done it in 12 months. So uh so we learned that it's possible. Now I think it's about okay it's possible but how do you do that at scale uh and that's really where we're spending a lot of a lot of our energy is is how do you help accelerate insight? How do you help accelerate research? How do you put it in the hands uh of the agencies and the researchers and the life science companies and the commercialization agents within those companies to really move at the uh pace and scale that we really ought to move in. You mentioned AI.

Leonard Murphy: Yeah.

Tal Rosenberg: Yes, you know, all of a sudden we got a gift. You can do even faster than we thought before. Um, yeah, I think there's there's a lot a lot of opportunity in front of us for sure in that space, but I'm sure we'll get to it in a little bit.

Leonard Murphy: Well, you know, so I I don't I I don't want to get into any of the the politics of this, but there is it seems as if there is a trend that at a macro level of this the make America healthy again. Set the political aspect of that aside. But this idea this concept that I think is a longtail outcome from from covid of a more holistic approach to patients to health and by holistic I don't necessarily mean all natural I mean treating you know we we are people we are not just our ailments um and the and an openness to explore lots of different permutations of how to deal with uh all the different aspects of health which opens up outside of traditional uh healthcare life sciences industry. I guess where I'm going with that. uh I I think there's more stakeholders from a business standpoint uh that want to understand things that that previously were maybe solely in the domain of life sciences uh because there is some impact on that you know food right whatever right there's lots of different components that uh I suspect companies sorry this this happens when you when you just wing it right um I suspect there's companies that were not necessarily uh in your original target list of clients that are now wanting to engage with you because it is relevant to their business as well and understanding the the the patient uh the the health care aspect of humans as well as physicians uh because it's a multi-dimensional uh system with lots of things going in and out all the time. Is that a fair assessment? Am I Am I going on a out on a the end of a twig here or for a branch?

Tal Rosenberg: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let me let me try to make sense of all of that in my head. I think there's there's a lot in in what you said. We can take it in a few different directions. I think first of all the fact that there's uh more than we need to navigate. Uh the way I look at it is that the bar is just higher right we need to clear a higher bar and on one hand uh it makes it slightly more difficult or maybe cumbersome but at the same time um it pushes you know safety and efficacy to new levels which which I support right so it's striking that um nice balance between uh innovations and and moving fast as well as making sure that we're we're safe

Leonard Murphy: Mhm.

Tal Rosenberg: Uh uh and efficacious right with with mark. I think that's one. I think the other you spoke about, you know, new new parties if you will uh that are entering into the mix and and yes, if if you think about some of the financial institutions, right, the investors effectively um I would say that maybe 10 years ago they're maybe not so worried about all the commercialization aspects uh because someone else it will be someone else quote unquote someone else's problem. Um I think that the investment environment is slightly different and and investors are holding their assets for longer which means they do have to think about a little bit more which again is incredible opportunity for Konovo and the work we're doing with private equity and other um financial institutions basically making sure and helping them really to evaluate the the commercial value of the precious entity that they've spent billions on. Right? So uh that is one thing that's uh definitely pushing uh pushing our business in the right direction.

Leonard Murphy: Okay. That's uh that's interesting. The uh I I had thought about that particular angle, but of course follow the money, right?

Tal Rosenberg: Someone has someone has to fund all this, right?

Leonard Murphy: Absolutely. 100% 100%. I mean innovation doesn't happen without uh without money being invested to help drive it. So um and amongst all of this disruption uh for lack of a better term that also creates immense opportunity. Um so let let's step back and let's talk about uh Konovo today. Uh you know we so I kind of gave my own little version of your your history with kind of the piece parts but you're not just a bunch of things put together right you've built uh an organization now that that is seamless and integrated and has uh broader capabilities and aspirations so let's talk about that what's the business doing Okay.

Tal Rosenberg: Yeah. Yeah. You know, when when I joined the team, um we were known as Apollo Intelligence, which was really a makeup of of three companies, um Inc. Crowd, SAG, and GlocalMind. Um and uh when I've joined 13 months ago and kind of on now on the inside really looked at the opportunity um we looked at each one of the pieces and figure out actually that the value that we can drive in this industry is is more than uh just the sum of the parts right it's 1 plus 1 plus 1 actually equals five.

Leonard Murphy: Right.

Tal Rosenberg: Uh and hence we saw the the real opportunity to put ourselves um a new strategy and and a new brand that really represents and if you think about Konovo what it stands for you know K is about connections and Novo is is new novo waves right uh and it's all about connecting inside and how do you do this in a fresh new perspective how do you do this in a expedited u pace and and that's really what we've done and what was incredible is that we had incredible amount of um legacy to build on. Incredible amount of of proof points to to build from where in crowd being the the tech enabled, right? Really the only platform out there today that you go in and in one place you can pick your audience, design your survey, do the automatic data collection and the presentation all in one platform. Amazing. Then if you look at what SAG brought the table is a global panel, one of the largest ones out there.

Leonard Murphy: Mhm.

Tal Rosenberg: So not only we can focus on on US which is where 50% of the market is but how do we do this at scale across geography and then GlocalMind which really gives us that footprint uh in Asia and really enable us to support customers um you know kind of following the sun mentality. So when you you take those three pieces together, all of a sudden it's not just one at a time, but it's uh 1 plus 1 plus 1 equals 5. And we put in motion a pretty um significant um investment in how do we expand our access to audience around the world? How do we expand our tools and capabilities to really enable researchers uh to continue to do things in the fastest possible way and put it all under what we call the Konovo intelligent platform which uh really sets us apart right now and that's really what's making a difference uh for our customers.

Leonard Murphy: It's great as we now we'll go back to AI now from the standpoint of kind of the the the conundrum of what it unlocks uh potentially but the impact on fundamentally market research uh which is it opens up so many doors methodologically uh to be able to you know qualitative scale ethnography you know to to really understand the physician's world or the patients world um uh in real time and and then of course synthesis of data etc etc which also has huge implication for business models you look at other companies that are not so category specific as as Konovo we see them now looking moving away from ad hoc projects into more subscription models um uh the trying to change things. I'm sorry if you guys hear the dog in the background. I'm here alone. It's this is I think we're cursed today, my friend. We're going to have some uh some interruptions. Um anyway, it is it's authentic.

Tal Rosenberg: It's what make it authentic. Lenny, that's

Leonard Murphy: It's authentic. So, welcome to our world. Um, point being, now that there's existing business models that you've built on, um, are you seeing opportunities now to uh, change not just how you go about, uh, delivering value to your customers, collecting data, delivering data, um, but also changes in even potential new product lines that are being driven by AI?

Tal Rosenberg: So the short answer is yes. You know when I look at the opportunity of AI and and where we're investing uh pretty much all of our time and energy um is is really in two things.

Leonard Murphy: Mhm.

Tal Rosenberg: So obviously AI can help us all become more efficient, right? When I talk about efficiency, it's not so much about contributing another dollar to the bottom line, but actually how do we move at speed? How do we move at scale? I think second is how do we become more intelligent, right? Um this industry by and large there are super smart people uh all around us doing great work. Uh but it's always limiting factor to they only know what they know. they don't know what everyone else knows and and think there's a tremendous amount of uh opportunity to really kind of elevate all of us right to a whole new level of intelligence uh that will help shape and design you know better ways for us to think about the questions we're asking our customers so you would all agree that we're we can reach a whole new level and then okay great how do we execute um on that vision after that and that's where LLMs and AI and the rest uh the rest of it really comes into play where you can do things so much faster, so much more automated. Um, you know, I think AI is what everyone's talking about. Um, what's interesting with with AI to me and and what I preach to to the team and where we're spending our dollars, it just not it's not just about AI as a tool. What actually feeds it is is what's going to make the difference because today AI is new, so everyone's talking about it and that's so-called competitive differentiator. I don't think it's going to be a lasting competitive differentiator if you don't have the data underneath it to really inform it and make it more intelligent, you know.

Leonard Murphy: Yep.

Tal Rosenberg: So, it's the combination of the curated LLMs. It's it's the combination of the the industry data. It's the combination of the uh the templates and the knowhow, right? Uh that really makes makes it special and unique. And that's why we're investing in what we call the the Konovo core, right? That really infuses all of that, right? If you have that that gives you a sustainable competitive advantage and on top of that you can build a lot of things.

Leonard Murphy: Yeah.

Tal Rosenberg: So that that's kind of our mantra our philosophy around AI.

Leonard Murphy: Yeah. Couldn't agree with you more. The uh uh AI fundamentally is is a how now it's still, you know, it's still one of those things that every day it's like, oh, well, that's cool. We didn't see that coming, right? It's it's a a very uh disruptive how but it's still just a piece of technology uh overall that to your point drives on data.

Tal Rosenberg: Correct.

Leonard Murphy: I've actually been framing up in my my head and see if you agree with this uh for suppliers in the space uh so like Konovo I I think there's three uh I call it the three U's um there's uniqueness uniqueness of the data um usability what you do with it uh to make it usable and then utility of how it really drives value for the end client. So, and those three things have to be, it sounds like you kind of built that into your your kovo core uh overall.

Tal Rosenberg: Yeah.

Leonard Murphy: The uh if we lose sight of those things, then we've probably lost our way um as uh as businesses because ultimately it's just a means to an end.

Tal Rosenberg: Yeah. Yeah. We got to make sure that we don't hallucinate. You know, there there's patience lives at stake.

Leonard Murphy: Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. and data quality from that standpoint. I mean, early gosh, I I remember it hit me early on in the AI era uh of realizing the the risk of contamination in data now with AI involved in healthcare decisions like literally you can kill somebody.

Tal Rosenberg: Yeah. Yeah.

Leonard Murphy: Um so, so let's talk about that for a second, right? Obviously, you guys uh you know, you have these these data assets and these panel assets. Um, how do you ensure that you're maintaining quality? Because because you're right, the t the stakes are high.

Tal Rosenberg: Yeah, you know, it starts with the basics, you know, we we ensure that uh the people that are sitting in our ecosystem, uh patients or physicians, they're actually patients, physicians in in physicians or nurse practitioners or whatnot. and they're not AI chat bots, right, that are acting as as ones. So, putting the kind of the rigorous processes of of validation, I think, is is critical. Uh we we take them through the ringers, quote unquote, to make sure they are who they say they are... uh number one. Two, you know, we're all tapping into data that's um in the public domains, but what we do is we we make sure we curate it and we validate it and we don't let uh agents that we don't uh that we're not able to validate to really come into our ecosystem because it's enough that you have one point of contamination, if you will, ecosystem, the whole thing could be skewed. So, so we're investing a lot of time make sure that our audience uh our supply as you call it um are highly curated and are highly validated and that then ensures that everything from there downstream you know is pure and authentic.

Leonard Murphy: Yeah. Well, I'm glad to hear that. But I assume that was the case. Um, but I think it's also for our listeners that keep hearing that the uh data quality isn't just some nebulous concept, right?

Tal Rosenberg: Yeah.

Leonard Murphy: The uh it is fundamental and in the era of AI, it's never been more important. And you put that really truly in perspective. It's not that oh, I got to my numbers are off, you know, for my ad test like no, literally kill somebody.

Tal Rosenberg: Yeah. Yeah.

Leonard Murphy: So I uh it it's a big deal. So, I'm glad you take it seriously as I would assume that you would. So, where do we go from here?

Tal Rosenberg: 100. Yeah.

Leonard Murphy: Right? What's what do you see in the future of the business? What are you focusing on, you know, as we record this uh in the tail end of October of uh 2025? You know, thinking about the year ahead, what's what's on your horizon?

Tal Rosenberg: You know, if I had to articulate where um I want us to be and where we painted a pretty robust road map of where we want to be in the next two to three years is starting from the point that when you come to the Konovo platform, you find the audience that you're looking for to conduct whatever it is research you're trying to do, right? And that is true across um geographies, that's true across therapeutic areas, and that's true across audience types. That's I want to be the place that people come to me think Amazon right you know you're going to go to Amazon you're going to find what you're looking for in the best possible price most likely right so so I want to mimic the same experience for our customers that first and foremost they come to the Konovo platform because they know that we'll find them a validated quality um ATP patients etc to really represent what it is that they're trying to get an answer to. So it's really starts with that point number one. Point number two, the other side of the equation of the other side of that platform. Okay, great. So, we found them the audience, but how can we help them design the research? How can we help them derive the insights in the fast pass uh fastest possible way? That's kind of the other side of of our investment, our road map u and and all the efforts that that we're making. Um you know, whether they choose a quantitative or qualitative method, you know, how do we help them there? But we don't only stop with the primary research. One of the things that I heard a lot in my early days here with the Konovo team is on this idea that you can actually connect uh primary intelligence with secondary data. You better understand the what and the why. It's quite a novel concept and it's not necessarily a concept which is brand new but it's not a concept that has been put in place in a scalable way.

Leonard Murphy: Mhm.

Tal Rosenberg: um you see what is happening in the data IQ probably released that data set but okay I want to actually research why did that happen so the ability to uh bring those two together and to be very clear

Leonard Murphy: Yep.

Tal Rosenberg: We're not going to get into the data business itself that's not what we're here for we're here to provide a platform that provides you the access to the audience and the tools to really to conduct the research in the fastest possible way that's going to be our contribution I think there's plenty of market research uh companies out there we don't necessarily want to be one more Right. We're want to be that platform that enable researchers wherever they are to really to conduct that research in the fastest possible way and to do it with the best most appropriate representative sample as I would describe it.

Leonard Murphy: That's uh sounds like good vision to me. So uh and I'm I'm certainly the track record. Well, what as you say that I think that was probably part of the original vision as well, right? So if we think about the the legacy of the business over the last 15 years that that I've been aware of, that's the through line. Um so my person Yes.

Tal Rosenberg: I'll tell you what unique Lenny I think what one of the things that we've added to the execution of this vision because I agree it's not that it's all new but it's how it can happen And other than uh there are a few different layers to that cake.

Leonard Murphy: Mhm.

Tal Rosenberg: One of them is the actual integration of legacy in crowd SAG and gloite into Konovo. Number one. Number two, we take a partner first approach to how we build things. We don't do everything on our own. Uh I'll give you an example when you think about the connectivity to audiences right across uh TAS and and across audiences. One of the partnerships that we put in place which is uh making a difference for our customers is is our unique partnership with Doximity. Doximity one of the largest uh physician engagement platform in the country. 86% validated HCP sit on that platform. We connect with them in real time. So when we're looking for the hard-to-reach audiences, right, our partnership with Doximity guarantees that our customers find that. That's one example. I think another example is how we collaborate with small startups that are testing different things in AI. In uh three weeks, um we're launching a new product. We're calling it Survey Studio. Uh you're the first to hear about this.

Leonard Murphy: Oh, okay. Thank you.

Tal Rosenberg: We're literally, I think, landed on that name earlier this morning. Nash will correct me if I'm wrong, but we're taking to market um a survey studio product which will basically we're doing this with with partnership with a small exciting startup company that their name will be revealed in a couple weeks. And the genesis of this partnership is take a a long uh cumbersome full of friction process all the way from the design of the survey to the programming of the survey and coming up with the right data collection methods to do that all through our platform. We're literally cutting a process that takes weeks by multiple parties to hours and days.

Leonard Murphy: Mhm.

Tal Rosenberg: So um how we go about executing on our vision and the fact that we're doing it with a uh partner first approach I think also positions us really really nicely in the ecosystem to continue and expand uh and accelerate our vision

Leonard Murphy: Ah, I I love that. The um it's those fundamental values of knowing who you are and how you want to do things. uh that I think are real strengths and uh certainly sometimes we have to pivot and adjust a little bit here and there because life throws unplanned things at you but the uh that consistency of view of of perspective um I think is a strength. So, it's probably that's a good segue into the last part of our conversation. Um, and that is kind of lessons learned as a CEO. And I think we just heard a little bit of that probably right then and there. But what else? What give us some advice uh for all these other up-and-coming startups, you know, that are creating cool new stuff and I think they're going to take the uh the world by storm. What if distill your wisdom tell.

Tal Rosenberg: Yeah. You know, uh I don't know if you take advice from me, but I'll tell you what worked really well for me. Uh and one of my big beliefs. Um you know, I've built um innovative technology businesses throughout my entire career, last 25 years, and it's been a lot of fun. and and I don't know if it's secret or not but the reality is that u great technology companies great uh innovative products are not about the technology of their products they're about the people that are behind it and uh as a leader uh I think you need to hire it's my dog now uh as a leader right you you need to make sure that you hire um you know with certain values in mind and and to create a very unique culture. And to keep it simple, what worked really really well uh for me uh is how do you hire people that answer three very simple criteria, Lenny? They're smart, they're nice, and they know how to get things done, you know, and and if you can bring that culture into your company, you become invincible.

Leonard Murphy: There you go.

Tal Rosenberg: We're 300 people today uh at Konovo and each and every one of them meets those three criterias which I think is making us uh uh a real force um in the industry. I think the other is when you have that strong infrastructure that strong base of people is is how do you continue to build a culture of of integrity? Um and to me first and foremost integrity is making sure you do you do the right thing by by your customer. And I call delivering exceptional customer experience needs to be at the at the heart of of what we do uh every day. Um you do those two things right. I think that your setup for success is uh has been my philosophy for the last several years. The I I I think that makes an awful lot of sense. Um and uh just foundational wisdom. Uh I would translate that into I don't know the older I get is uh I'm getting too old to do things that I don't want to do with people I don't want to do it with. So, there's the the the no assholes rule. And you know, there's a couple definitions of what that and why is it so don't do what they say. Uh aren't good at what they say they're going to do and are unpleasant to be around. Um and yeah, so the the opposite of like, yeah, if somebody fits in those three buckets, um yeah, you probably need to focus on your three buckets as the uh the defining criteria. That's bottom. We don't have any smart assholes on our team.
Leonard Murphy: Some smart asses though. Uh there's probably a couple of those.

Tal Rosenberg: Not anymore. Maybe.

Leonard Murphy: No, they've saying this is live without a net. Why we on this uh no one's dropped an Fbomb yet, but the occasional, you know, uh the occasional somewhat vulgar thing. We're all good with that. So, all around.

Tal Rosenberg: Yeah, I'm with you.

Leonard Murphy: So, uh Tal, this has been a real pleasure. Is there anything else that you want to make sure that we touch on that we did not touch on?

Tal Rosenberg: No, it's been uh it's been a pleasure. You know, I I'll share with you a perspective that I uh only developed in the last uh you know, handful of years of my career. Um and and that perspective is, you know, no matter where you are in your career, I think as as leaders, we need to continuously pressure test our decision- making. And uh where it comes to life to me sometimes I find myself stand in front of the mirror if something upsets me and I'm trying to make a decision. Um I'm asking myself am I making this decision because it's best for the company and the customer or making this decision because of my own ego?

Leonard Murphy: Mhm.

Tal Rosenberg: And if it's the latter, nine out of 10 you're about to make the wrong decision.

Leonard Murphy: Yeah.

Tal Rosenberg: Right? And I think that true leadership is when you think about the the overall good of the company and your customer and that those comes first. And I think that's uh I'm sharing this with you as we're met for the first time, but I feel like we've been friends forever uh as is the one thing that has been uh um keeping me straight and and giving me the direction and I share that with the team. So I decided to share that with you as well.

Leonard Murphy: I appreciate you doing that and that it does resonate and I I feel the same. The uh I am I am a servant. So that is my fundamental role uh as a as a father, as a husband, as a employer, as a colleague. Um the I may fill leadership roles in all of that. I have responsibilities. Um but it's about making the right decision for everybody else or else I've failed in any of those roles. So that that resonates absolutely with me. I actually uh I don't talk about this very often, but I I start my day with a little bit of prayer and meditation. And that's fundamentally one of those things of like help me make I don't want to make decisions out of ego today. So I still fail often at that. I still make a lot of decisions out of out of ego, but I try not to. I aspire to just try and do the right thing for other people. So thank you for sharing that. I that that does resonate.

Tal Rosenberg: My pleasure, Lenny. It's been a real pleasure. Uh thank you for taking the time and chatting here today and it's I'm looking looking forward for the next time.

Leonard Murphy: I am as well, Tal. Uh so I'm glad that we finally broke the ice and uh hopefully this will not be the last conversation for our listeners. Thank you for tuning in uh for giving Tal and I an excuse to get together and and uh and share. Thank you to our producers, to our sponsors, and uh we will see you on the next edition of the CEO series. That's it for now. Bye-bye. Thank