More Data, Less Insight: AI's Value Problem

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AI is rewriting the rules of research, commerce, and insights work. In episode 146 of The Exchange, Karen Lynch and Lenny Murphy cover massive funding rounds chasing decision infrastructure, shaky AI shopping recommendations that could quietly mislead consumers, digital twins expanding what synthetic research can do, and a $100 million bet that human judgment still beats automation. The through line: adoption is accelerating faster than trust.

Thanks to our producer, Karley Dartouzos. 

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Transcript

Karen Lynch: The content. Yep. And there we go.

Lenny Murphy: Here We're for the audience. Happy Friday. We were just talking through how we use these tools, which, of course, AI, right? And developing the briefs and the topics we're going to do. And it's just a really cool thing. And we won't bore you with all the rest.

Karen Lynch: But AI is cool. That's all I'm saying. It's cool, man.

Lenny Murphy: Well, it didn't make it in because it just was announced this morning. So we should probably just go ahead and say that. Says that their new Astral model is AGI.

Karen Lynch: I mean, we cannot keep up with this week, Lenny. Friends, when we were Lenny and I were talking about creating the brief yesterday, and I'm like, every two minutes, we have a whole system of like where we share in our Slack thread, like where we share the stories. And he's like, who, you know, how are we doing the brief? And I'm like, how can we stop? Because every two minutes, one or the other of us is sharing a story. And I'm like, the news was the update. It's not just news because now it's like just updates to the world were coming at us like every two minutes yesterday. It was like, what? We can't keep up. Yeah. It's crazy.

Lenny Murphy: Perspective, you know, reports, blah, blah, blah. And we brought all that so we could filter it down.

Karen Lynch: Yeah. Into, you know.

Lenny Murphy: Even though we've expanded from our original, oh, it's only gonna be 20 minutes to then 30 minutes. And now it's like, whenever the hell we're done. But the, but it is still separate, filtering out what we think is particularly relevant in a huge flux of

Karen Lynch: Uh or inflow of information, and I thought it would be quieter this week because so many people were at SMR Congress and um Congress, and I just thought it would be a quieter week. Nope, not the case, not the case, not the case. So, I think it's actually more important because I think so many people were there, they actually missed a lot. Because they were, they were knee deep in conversation over there with their colleagues or whatever. I think they missed a lot. So, we really ought to get right to it, but not before we plug some of the things we need to plug.

Lenny Murphy: Let's do the plugs, get them out of the way, pay the bills, and then move on.

Karen Lynch: So, grid survey, grit survey, grid survey. Let's start with the grid survey in the field. Yeah. You know, um, take it. Help us help you for real. You know, if you don't do this, then we cannot give you the intel that we give you. This is really for you. It's super important. And, I can't say enough about it. And also, you know, Nelson, Nelson is, I really cannot say enough about this man and what he's doing. He is now, he is now writing. Even more beyond the grit report. We are now starting to publish even more of his thinking outside of the grit report. So, we're putting articles on LinkedIn of what he sees kind of between the data that he shares in the reports. What else is he finding in this data? We're publishing more. So, look for those articles on LinkedIn. We'll be sharing a couple of articles each month. Eventually, we'll bring those to the Green Book website as well. You know, it's really the gift that keeps on giving to this industry, and Nelson is the provider.

Lenny Murphy: So, um, people may not know that we should actually call that out. There's probably a misnomer or people think that I still write grit.

Karen Lynch: No, I don't. I haven't written grit in years.

Lenny Murphy: I contribute to grit, I edit grit, but Nelson Whipple. Nelson Whipple is a good friend, met him many years ago, worked on the client side, fantastic analyst and data jockey.

Karen Lynch: And Nelson does.

Lenny Murphy: The Herculean task of managing. He is the research director in all ways, you would use that language for Grit. He does all the heavy lift. I just get to come in and kind of mark my territory.

Karen Lynch: He does all the heavy lift. And he does a great job. And he's putting even more grit content out there. So yeah. So, it's so look for it on LinkedIn and um and please get this survey. And thank you to all the partners that are really um circulating it as well. We really appreciate you.

Lenny Murphy: Yep.

Karen Lynch: Yep. Next up, AI. Let's talk about it. It is going to come up very soon. Um, I'm so excited for all these speakers. I'm getting really excited for the town hall. I'm going to be joined as we wrap the whole thing up by. You know, Barry Jennings is, you know, is officially joining me for the town hall. Lisa Cordade is joining me for the town hall. David Duguin from Dish Network is joining me for the town hall. So, you know, some brand side speakers. I'll be pulling in somebody from an agency as well. We will be wrapping up the entire thing. You know, it's just, I can't wait for this event. Some amazing brands are joining us. Some amazing agencies are joining us. Some surprising speakers as well. It's going to be a great event. Very cool. Free to register, get on in there, friends. Um, you know, we already have over, I think we're at over 1300 registrants for this event, so get on in there, you don't want to miss it.

Lenny Murphy: Yeah, remember, this is a virtual event, guys, so you don't get on a plane.

Karen Lynch: So, the uh, uh, all right, yeah, cool, and then oh my gosh, IIEX West, yep, and West. Cannot wait. It's really, it's, I mean, look at some of these brands, right? I don't know. Every time I get excited about some of these, I just talk to a speaker from Waymo. I don't know if Waymo is a self-driving car. And every time I talk to them, I'm like, they're like, we'll have to get you in one. And oh, I don't like it, I don't know. Can I watch your presentation first? But she's there. It's like, it's so, like, I'm so from the Northeast where it's just like, they're not here yet. So, but you know, but really fun, they're going to be talking about kind of you know, agile research ops. So, like, we have something for everybody. It's not just an AI event, although, yes, of course, there'll be some AI sessions, but talking about research ops and we're talking about, you know, kind of, you know, traditional things, but or evergreen topics, but with a new lens, like, you know, the segmentation, the, you know, kind of tracking. We're talking about the convergence of UX and MRX. We're talking about. You know, kind of trend spotting and, you know, kind of cultural shifts. I mean, we're talking about, you know, oh, gosh, somebody's going to be talking about a kind of motherhead and the new, kind of the new gatekeeper decision making. Like, there's some great stuff coming to this event.

Lenny Murphy: I just can't. And there's a little a, we have recently realized that when it's a good idea, lots of people have it at the same time. So, we're aware there are multiple other events happening around the same time.

Karen Lynch: Yeah.

Lenny Murphy: Okay, you come and spend a week in the Bay Area, Northern California, in October. There's a lot of worse ways to spend your time, guys. So, if you're thinking you have to choose, you have to choose, just come and spend a couple of days.

Karen Lynch: You Yeah, uh, you know, I just want to say also that another thing, you know, we have our competition at this event, also. We're, we're, we've extended the competition not just to North America, we did it in Europe, we're doing it at this event as well. And um, it all of a sudden clicked because listen is our title sponsor here. Um, I was thinking, you know, why don't we do a kind of a panel or group discussion on stage with past competition winners? And so, Alfred said, Yes, I'm in for that. Dana Kim, she's in for that. So, you know, and I've got, I got emails out to two other competition winners in the past. So we're going to talk to competition winners about what it takes to, you know, what it takes to start up, you know, an insights business. So, you know.

Lenny Murphy: Were you teeing up our first story?

Karen Lynch: Was I teeing up our first story? Maybe I was. I was not at all. I'm just saying we're in that area of the world talking about innovation in a space that is ripe with innovation in that area of the world. So excited to be there. But yeah, no, let's speak of startups, let's go. Well, right.

Lenny Murphy: So hats off to Conveo. 50 million series A Series A, right? For infrastructure rather than a tool. For those of you who are not familiar, we talk a lot about listen, conveyor, listen, we're both kind of the class of 2023. Yeah. Right.

Karen Lynch: Yeah. The early players because they were at our first North America, all over our staircase. They had great branding all over the floor, all over the floor. So their funding is now up to 55.8, I think this piece said. So, you know, 55.8.

Lenny Murphy: And really smart folks. They, you I mean, all these guys that team one, they have Neil Schwartz. Formerly of, you know, of Insights Consulting and SMR president. And, that's, that was great. European heritage, they're all German and Belgium and, you know, we came to the US.

Karen Lynch: They're doing great stuff. They're doing great stuff.

Lenny Murphy: And same thing, the relevant piece of that, just like they're positioned as decision infrastructure. Yeah. We've been talking about this concept. And the same thing. These, these software, we think of them as software platforms. They're more than software platforms because they're embedded, you know, in with the MCP and blah blah blah. They're embedded in workflows and they're empowering decision-making across the organization in new ways. So, I have to talk to them. I was shocked. I saw 400 clients.

Karen Lynch: 400 enterprise clients, including 50 Fortune, 50 Fortune 500 brands. I think that's it. 400 enterprise clients.

Lenny Murphy: For you. Phenomenal. And why would you? You get again, this company's three years old, maybe.

Karen Lynch: I know. It's amazing. It's amazing. Great numbers to put out there, certainly in a press release like this. So, yeah. Yeah. One upset. So good job. Good job. I love, I love when you can put out a metric that really makes people take note. I mean, it's a good one. It's a good one.

Lenny Murphy: Good for you. Absolutely. Absolutely. If you need to understand the transformation in the industry, well, that's. That's pretty indicative because combined, I'm willing to bet they don't have the same clients as Listen and Outside these other guys.

Karen Lynch: I know they're all, it's really interesting because they are all playing the game, right? And they're all doing well. It's really interesting. So, how are hyperscores? Yeah, I know. Cool. So, ask Polly. I love this one. I thought it was really cool. I know. So, Ask Polly raised 3 million seed funding. I feel like we talked about them before because the name kind of rang a bell. So, I looked into them, but they're betting a bet against both social listening and synthetic personas, right? So, what's interesting about it is that I looked into it by the way. The co-founder and chief executive is a woman named Erin Kelly. So, female founder, you know, which is always going to get my kind of get my ratters up because that is rare and I'm very, very excited to see that. What's really cool is she's quoted in this release saying, Customers are already sharing what they think online, but the loaded voices are not, loudest voice, loudest voices are not always representative. So, we built it to ask Polly to remove that bias and give companies rigorous answers. While those insights can still shape a decision. So, I love that. And it also says in here, already being used by more than 200 companies. So, again, 400 is great, good for you, Conveo, but also Poly 200 is also very good. Like, being able to say, you know, this early on when you just get 3 million in seed funding, that you've got 200 clients, that's fantastic. I don't know, it's just good stuff. So. Yeah. So, yeah, with organic social data, I just like it. I just like it.

Lenny Murphy: I like the idea that they're using. So, I, this week's sometimes just themes just run throughout weeks, right? Not in the stories, but also conversations and a lot of conversations about validation and calibration and infrastructure.

Karen Lynch: Matter of fact, almost every conversation I had this week was around some variation of that. Yeah. And this, this.

Lenny Murphy: Ass poly fits into that, right? So it's not saying the other pieces that fit into the stack, right? The uh and are kind of a calibration validation tool to even make the results and the outcome of these other solutions even better.

Karen Lynch: Yeah. Yeah.

Lenny Murphy: So, you know, it's like, I, yeah, hats off to him. I thought that was great.

Karen Lynch: Yeah. Very good. Very good. Yeah. Yeah. So. So interesting. Shall we talk about Tripo AI? It's a little excursion into a slightly different world.

Lenny Murphy: Not quite right. Yeah. Yeah. 445 million to train 3D world models. This is coming up a lot. There were a lot of things this week that were related to. Real world models, robots. We're seeing that shift.

Karen Lynch: Yeah. Oh, that's right. It didn't make it in. Was the robot, the robot delivery dog with ads on the side.

Lenny Murphy: Anyway, side dogs.

Karen Lynch: Yeah. So triple AI, which is world building, kind of being developed by gamers and kind of graphic graphic people. But with different use cases, right? So the funding move here, I think, is because even though gaming giants might be the backers, it's the intelligence aspect of building worlds that I think is where the potential is, that it's not just for gaming. And I think that's what we're paying attention to here: they're like, okay, there is potential and why it's getting funding is there's potential beyond gaming in the world building that they are doing. And I think that's where researchers take note: you know, this virtual reality, this augmented reality that we live in sometimes.

Lenny Murphy: Yeah, shelf testing. You know, layout testing, right? I mean, think about the ability to, you know, to test any stimuli in a virtual setting. And if anything, resurrects the idea of the metaverse.

Karen Lynch: I know.

Lenny Murphy: It'll be this because that was really clunky.

Karen Lynch: And then, yeah.

Lenny Murphy: So don't, we, those topics keep coming up and they affect the fundamentally I see this is thinking entertainment is going to change.

Karen Lynch: Yeah.

Lenny Murphy: That affects marketing. It affects advertising. It affects how we engage respondents, blah, blah, blah. So we do need to mention these things.

Karen Lynch: Well, you know what? Let's be sending our digital twins into the virtual world for a focus group. And they can be having a qualitative discussion right there while I'm at work.

Lenny Murphy: They can. But here's the thing. Those digital twins, those shopping agents are unpredictable and ungoverned.

Karen Lynch: That's right. That's right. All right. All right. So AI shopping agents are unpredictable and ungoverned. So there's a story that we're segueing into Penn Research. Across six frontier models, found shopping recommendations can be unstable. There's a big surprise, right? And there's a lot of different studies cited in this particular release. But there's some interesting things here, too. 42% of millennials would trust AI to make purchasing decisions for them up to $250. That's a lot. 64% of Gen Z shoppers say they're likely to purchase based on AI recommendations. That's a lot.

Lenny Murphy: That's a lot.

Karen Lynch: That's a lot. Of course, it's Gen Z, right? We all need to be in our industry, we really do need to be understanding Gen Z. They are very different from Gen X, and then very different from Gen X. Clearly different from boomers, very different from Gen X, very different from Millennials. Gen Z is rewriting all of our rules. Forget about Gen Alpha. We can't quite understand them yet. But they are going to age into decision making very soon. And then it says at the very bottom, in the course of e-commerce, agents will likely encounter reviews, recommendations, search results, user memories, and other prior information before making a purchase decision.

Lenny Murphy: And they're susceptible to strategically planted content. So we think these are not impartial. They're just, you know, coldly calculating the, you know, the reviews and whatever. No, that they're being played.

Karen Lynch: Yeah. So they're being manipulated.

Lenny Murphy: So if we're trusting these populations, trusting these AI recommendations and the AI recommendations, there was another. Story that didn't make it in, but we can just mention it.

Karen Lynch: We talked. There was somebody that didn't make it in, yeah.

Lenny Murphy: Yeah, of the content owners, you know, saying, nope, you don't get access to our content anymore and all of this very complex system, which fundamentally, my key takeaway was agentic recommendations are not fully trustworthy if your decision-making. Is based on the widest view of whatever it is with a totally objective analysis because it's not getting access to all the right data, you know, et cetera, et cetera. So it is still, it's very limited. And that's, that's an interesting thing.

Karen Lynch: But it's also the potential, though. The game-changing potential of it to remember things that I may forget. So I may go to system one thinking because and just go to routine, like, what do I always get? Because I forgot the name of the latest brand that I tried that I liked. So I'm going back to what I used to get. And yet the agent may remember.

Lenny Murphy: That I that I said I liked something new that I tried like the the potential of it it having a better memory than me yep is really great for me um yeah but do we get into kind of a recursion thing so this kind of almost goes back to our original beginning conversation of like you know we're building I built this week the a bro you know what they're calling a brain right and it's like all right I finally got to put all this it's all interconnected blah blah blah. I am painfully aware of utilizing that okay, this is great baseline information, but it's the unknowns that are actually where the real insight comes in. It's the fringe stuff, and so I'm painfully I don't want these systems just referring to the past, just being stuck in this tunnel vision of information. Um, because then where's the novelty so?

Karen Lynch: These are just big honking issues, right? So interesting. Yeah.

Lenny Murphy: It's, yeah. But to that point, so we got this, this whole trend is happening.

Karen Lynch: Well, trend. And, who's going to be on top of it? NIQ. NIQ. So NIQ is going to be seriously on top of it.

Lenny Murphy: And similar websites.

Karen Lynch: Yep.

Lenny Murphy: And we've seen a bunch of launches on this over the last few months as well. Yeah. Yeah. So they're an IQ similar web launch of Genti Commerce Measurement, measuring brand discovery in conversion across AI platforms. Yeah.

Karen Lynch: Yeah.

Lenny Murphy: I was reading that saying, well, you can measure, you know, even if something is broken, you can still measure it. It doesn't make it right.

Karen Lynch: Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Well, they're saying if AI is a new commerce challenge, a new commerce channel, then NIQ intends to make it measurable. End of story. Like, it's, this is not up for debate. This is a fact. This is a new commerce channel. Is going to measure it. Similar web's going to help them do that. Period. Right. It is what it is, friends. So, like, we are up for discussion. No. No debate here. I love that this whole concept is like, you know.

Lenny Murphy: This is not a hypothetical this is not a someday this is a it's happening and so you know just accept that reality and and get your strategy on absolutely absolutely and and understand what that strategy is because of these kind of maybe underlying systemic wild west issues that we're still in it's very unsettled and it's gonna have to change all we know for sure is that people are using ai AI to make recommendations and agents to make purchases.

Karen Lynch: Yeah.

Lenny Murphy: Know that to be true.

Karen Lynch: It's like you wouldn't. I mean, it's really, just a matter of time. Again, I think about this like, you know, I love New York Times recipes. Actually, I love my New York Times newsletter that I get in the morning. It's called the morning. And at the end of it, there's always a recipe. And very often I read that recipe and I'm like, I can make that for dinner tonight. And if you go to the New York Times recipe, very often they have a, do you want to add this to your grocery list? And sometimes on the grocery list, do you want to add this to Instacart? I am waiting for me to look at that newsletter and be able to say, get this to my house by the end of the day and have it do all those things for me. I would do that. I would have an agentic workflow from my morning read in my New York Times newsletter. I would do that. And that would be agentic purchasing. That would be the whole agentic purchasing from me reading a newsletter to it showing up at my front door. I would be on board. So there are definitely going to be other people like me who would, you know. Beta test that entire agentic workflow via the New York Times newsletter. It's just a matter of time. This is all going to happen. So, if you're a brand, you are not going to have a say in which can of tomatoes I might buy for the tomato paste for whatever recipe I use. Like, that's not going to happen if I approve. You know, if I say, yes, you know, to make that particular recipe. Like, I'm not going to have the brand purchase decision. So, if you are that kind of food brand, this is what you need to be thinking through. That is one of the most immediate use cases I can think about: recipes. And what to me, that is a cause for concern for food brands.

Lenny Murphy: Yeah. And what, so what does what? So, if you're a food brand, let's play with that for a minute.

Karen Lynch: This really is very interesting. Say, there's pasta in the world, you know, and Ronzoni Barilla. I probably've always maybe had a preference for, whether it's fresh pasta or ranzoni or barilla or sin, whatever. But I may not care if I'm going to let the agent do it for me.

Lenny Murphy: Right. So, maybe in that case, you need a sponsor. Ronzoni, whatever it needs to sponsor the recipe. So the agent is associated with that directly. That when it comes to buying pasta, you are buying Ronzoni plus Barilla's pasta sauce or whatever. It just changes that process. Brand, because what I'm hearing you say is like, I don't give a shit about the brand particularly. I just give myself the best ingredients to make the recipe. Right. So that. Yeah. So that the marketing changes because brand loyalty may not be relevant. So accessibility, expediency, price, you know, and low friction, because ultimately that's what you're doing.

Karen Lynch: That's what you're talking about. When it comes to approval for agentic purchasing, low friction is what you're going after. And that becomes the primary driver. Yep. Yep. If I really cared about everything that I was putting into it, then I wouldn't use an agent.

Lenny Murphy: Right. Right. Or I would specify. Right. I mean, it doesn't mean brand loyalty goes out the window. I certainly have loyalty to specific things that, like, no, I just like that better. So when we have a choice, I'm going to buy that because I just like it.

Karen Lynch: Exactly. Exactly. But in a situation, anyway, we could go off on this, but that's what we're talking about, friends. So for brand side listeners who have. A potential product in a chain like that. That's what you need to be thinking through or talking to your control people. So, all right, let's move on to some new product launches. Right.

Lenny Murphy: And with the commonality, with the commonality, we certainly haven't talked about MCPs. We haven't talked about MCPs.

Karen Lynch: By the way, I don't know who is saying hi to me. It just says LinkedIn user, but I'll say hi back.

Lenny Murphy: Um actually let's call this out right now because we're gonna have to make a decision at some point and it was it was relevant this week um I don't know that everybody announcing that an mcp is now is is war is newsworthy now because everybody's doing it it's table stakes it's like saying you know our car now has a steering wheel yeah fair enough fair enough um so guys are doing this don't take that as like it's not you're doing all the right stuff. Yeah. But we may just have to prioritize covering your announcement about an MCP because there's just too many because everybody's sort of started to do it, with people saying that they had, you know, just an AI feature.

Karen Lynch: We did have to, we did at some point we stopped talking about the AI features. So yeah, that's probably going to happen with MCP. Yeah. Yeah.

Lenny Murphy: Because we've just, I would say we've just gone, this is like literally probably the 30th.

Karen Lynch: Yeah. Yeah.

Lenny Murphy: The MCP announcements. Like, all right, this isn't a trend. It's not an early trend anymore. Yeah. This is just the way things are.

Karen Lynch: Yeah. Yeah.

Lenny Murphy: But that said, let's call out these folks because maybe the last time they made an MCP announcement gets called out. Rip data research desk, MCP. I thought that was really cool.

Karen Lynch: Yeah. Yeah. It is cool. It is cool. I mean, I continue to have, you know, the utmost respect, actually, for all of them, for all of the data quality companies. I just feel like they are a breath of fresh air in our industry. And I'm just grateful that they all exist. Just glad for all of them and all of the work that they're doing. I just have a lot of respect for them. And I'm happy that they're there. I wish there were more of them, to be honest with you. I wish. There were more of these companies that were working for data integrity in the industry. So, um, I wouldn't mind having more competition amongst them all.

Lenny Murphy: Absolutely, and we clear up data that actually has evolved. That's the foundation, they do a lot more than that now. So, we're seeing, but with that underpinning of you know, the focus on quality uh throughout. So, yeah, so that's really cool. Um, Euromonitor. You want to talk about that one?

Karen Lynch: Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's just more in a market intelligence directly inside an AI workflow. I mean, this is more infrastructure, another infrastructure move because they're building it right into Microsoft 365 Copilot. You know, and back to back to another table stakes move, we probably should stop talking about this too, but this is interesting because it's Euromonitor. You know, so having that data available. Right there in Microsoft 365 is probably an excellent feature for. I think that's a subscriber-based tool, though, for the most part. So, you know, but I think that's great for enterprise users who have subscriptions just to be able to tap into it. I think it's an excellent decision and a real asset for sure.

Lenny Murphy: Yep, agreed. And they go in where people, yeah. So they're feeding data. Yeah. You're, you know, you're in Excel. You're in a PowerPoint, whatever, right? Making it accessible where the users live. So friction.

Karen Lynch: And that level of intelligence. I think that all of that type of those large databases and those large reports, I think that's the move for all of them. Just get baked in. Yeah.

Lenny Murphy: Yep. So this ASCALytics, I thought this was really neat. Ask List launches a self-checking analytics platform. Yeah. So I read this like, so you've just made analytics idiot proof.

Karen Lynch: Yeah.

Lenny Murphy: The because it checks to make sure that you're right to validate the tool, which like God knows, we've all been there. We've all been, we've all presented something at some point. It's like, oh shit, that number's not right.

Karen Lynch: Right. Yeah.

Lenny Murphy: And it's worse when the client points it out and says, wait. Did you calculate that correctly?

Karen Lynch: So, yeah. So, I did some digging here too. So, the founder is somebody named Colin Fagras. And he said in one of these quotes I found, launched the company to address these AI hallucinations and analytics. And he said, a wrong number and a right one look exactly the same on screen. And if you already knew the answer, you wouldn't have asked. So you are the last person equipped to catch it. It. Yep. Which felt like an actual problem worth solving. And that just made me take a moment and say, haha, he's right. Like if we knew what the analytics were, if we knew what the data was, we wouldn't be querying it. So of course, we are not equipped to catch the mistake. Like, of course, we're not. We are not computer brains.

Lenny Murphy: So we thought it was like, sorry. We've always liked SPSS, we've always trusted software to do that math.

Karen Lynch: Right, right. So it's just so funny because as soon as I read that, I'm like, well, that makes so much sense. Like, of course, we look at the numbers and we're very trusting and it's foolish of us. Like, we need to have checks and balances. So, so, so yeah. So, cool. I like the idea of checks and balances in the data. Like, good stuff. Interesting.

Lenny Murphy: That's the type of thing that I would, I personally would, would. Yeah. Buy would want to check out like yeah, right because I'm not a data jockey, right? I'm definitely one of those guys. Yeah, you know, it's like, okay, I know how to do it, I know where I want to get to and I know how to push the right buttons to get me there, but challenge me to prove it.

Karen Lynch: Yeah.

Lenny Murphy: I'm not that guy.

Karen Lynch: So I know.

Lenny Murphy: Let's think about this optimization. This is the second week in a row.

Karen Lynch: I know. I know. So, we're talking about virtual teammates. So, optimizely introduce virtual teammates. And now, this one feels a little different. Like, I remember when agents first came out, I set up my team. A little virtual team going. And I started to think about this, you know, like, all right, so you can set up, you know, AI teammates for yourself and have one. One agent who's your assistant, and one agent who's your marketer, and one agent who's your, you know, your chief of your personal chief of staff, or one agent who's your, whatever, your SEO consultant, or whatever, like anything you might type into an AI platform and say, act as an X, Y, or Z. But this is pushing enterprise agents closer to digital team members, which Which is which is a little bit which is just a little bit scarier on some level, a little bit more threatening to people, I think. Because instead of it being like your assistants, it's being your direct reports replacements almost. That's the way this felt to me. You know, like, so some of the examples are like, add a marketing analyst, you know, add an SEO analyst, like add these analysts to your team. So if you're in the insight space and you're adding all of these analysts to your team, then do you have real analysts on your team also? Or do you only have these AI analysts? Where's the human in the loop? Where's the human in the loop? So, this is an interesting thing to experiment with and an interesting thing to think about. It is. We only see more.

Lenny Murphy: Yeah, you know, as much as we talk about all this stuff, and you know this, I'm still a slower adopter, right? I look at this stuff and say, oh, that's really cool, but I'm not ready to do that yet. Yeah, and I'm still, there's a lot that I'm still not ready to do. Yeah, but this idea is okay, now I've set up my brain, yeah, and I've been training context and doing all of this, and it functions often as an agent within my work stream. But I know I could do a whole lot more, and it's like the siren call, it's happening, it's like,

Karen Lynch: I'm just doing this, aren't I? I'm just going to have to set up, you know, like my chief of staff. But technically, we do. Again, not to let everyone know how the sausage gets made, but technically, we do have like a not quite a pure like producer, but we have like a production assistant in our AI, right? We have like an assistant to this show that helps us synthesize. What we're talking about. Otherwise, we would have hundreds of news stories each week. Right.

Lenny Murphy: And you and I are the human in the loop.

Karen Lynch: Right. We are the humans in the loop. So we do have a production assistant. I think that's the only name for it. So technically, we do have a virtual teammate. We actually have two virtual teammates. If you think about it, you have a teammate, I have a teammate. And sometimes we pit our teammates against each other. And, you know, maybe someday they'll meet. But you know what I mean? And yes, we are the humans in the loop. So we're not, we're not, and they haven't taken anyone's job because this is a job that you and I just did. So they just took the overflow. So, you know what I mean? Like, I think that's, I think that's how it works in an ideal world. We didn't, we didn't. So nobody lost a job. It's just helping us be better at the job we had.

Lenny Murphy: Right, right. Well, it's just a little bit more because probably for, I think people will hear themselves in this. And this maybe just disturbing you between you and I and how we're, you are within the Greenbook organization. You're working with the whole team every day doing lots of different things.

Karen Lynch: Yes.

Lenny Murphy: I'm adjacent. And the audience may not even know this, right? I'm adjacent to the Greenbook organization. I'm engaged, but I don't have an operational role.

Karen Lynch: So, not really. And I don't have an operational role with any.

Lenny Murphy: I am a consultant. I am a sole practitioner at the end of the day. So, in that world, with that mindset, is thinking of okay. I'm a solopreneur. And yes, I've been too and I have been partners, but still this model has appeal in thinking about, all right, well, I'm not going to, I'm not making enough to hire a team, but I could, but I want to make more money. So how do you amplify and augment and do those things? And then we start getting closer to this concept of the zero human company, right? Um, or the one human company, um, where it becomes the superpower, it's the augmentation, it's the you know, it, and just here we are. And then we see platforms like this optimizedly that make that even easier because it's scary. Part of it is the resistance of do I really want to get into you know, claw it rock or whatever and start setting all that up. I don't have time, I gotta do all this other stuff. Yeah, they're kind of doing it for you, yeah, which makes it even easier, but anyway, yeah.

Karen Lynch: Yeah. All right, we got a few more things. Uh, yeah, we do. Let's get into it. Let's, I mean, there's one more MCP story, right? That um, it's a partnership story, and I really want to talk about it just you know, it's synth, it's obviously, um, you know, big player in the industry, customer bars, synth and potluck, who I had not heard of, um, but also, I mean, um, you know, end-to-end survey panel providers, uh, you know, yeah, yeah, so, um, but they've partnered on an AI native research. Program via MCP. So, what I liked about this one was, you know, obviously the MCP, yet again, but also the partnership coming together on it, building it together. And I think that it solidifies that pattern that we talked about. I don't know, there's just something about the collaboration during these times. On your tech stack, that I think is just a good example. I just like those stories. They just, I don't know, they just feel right to me when there's obviously some, something about the relationship that they obviously, they obviously, I don't know, they obviously just had more than just capabilities that were in sync, but, you know, I don't know. Know. I just like, I just like those kinds of collaborations between those kinds of companies to make something happen for both of them.

Lenny Murphy: Absolutely. Absolutely.

Karen Lynch: Synthesis. So synergy. Synergy. That's the word. Synergy. Yeah. All those good things.

Lenny Murphy: So now the outset. So this was the next story. And sorry, because I yeah. Outset was part of that class of 2020 absolutely two, 2023 as well, right? Of the AI moderated. You know, quality and they are launching digital twins. So they're on trend two.

Karen Lynch: I know. So, yeah. So, and a week ago, you know, Aaron Cannon put in a LinkedIn post. I think that's the link that I grabbed was his LinkedIn post saying this is their biggest launch ever. So, they're calling it their biggest launch, even beyond their initial launch, right? They are digital twins. So, um, anyways, good for them. So it's beyond just their model of, you know, of AI research or AI moderation. It's their digital twins. So human and synthetic research.

Lenny Murphy: Make a prediction. We will see everyone else in the category. And we already are seeing some of them doing this. This will be having digital twins, synthetic personas off of your core. Research will become as common as exporting into Excel.

Karen Lynch: Yeah. So it makes so much sense because if you're already doing AI moderation and then, you know, with real people, and then you have all of that data, why wouldn't you make kind of digital twins out of that data? You just have to keep, you have to keep updating it, which I'm sure they are constantly. Like they have a constant source of news. Interviews so that they can make sure their data stays fresh and their twins are updated.

Lenny Murphy: So, which is vital, the fresh insight. To Ask Polly, right? That's their capture. It's like, oh, yeah, all your data is great until whatever hurricane hits, you know, the Gulf and overnight, right? The supply chains got disrupted. Oh, right. Okay. Right. Things just changed.

Karen Lynch: And they also have some amazing, you amazing clientele: Microsoft, and Uber, and Nestle, and Bane. I mean, you know, you cannot say enough about landing somebody like Bain, also, right? Like, once you're into a company like that, then you are at the consultancy level, which I think is outstanding. I mean, they were one of our very, you know, early on podcast interviews. Um, they partnered with Away Luggage, and um, you know, that was very exciting. So, um yeah. Anyway, so if you haven't caught that podcast episode, check it out. Yeah, we can probably, I could probably get you that link, Karley, to throw into that LinkedIn at some point to that podcast episode, or you can probably find it at some point too. Just do a quick little Google search.

Lenny Murphy: Anyway, good hours going through our podcast.

Karen Lynch: You'll find something that you'll like, yeah, you'll find something there, but they are definitely there.

Lenny Murphy: So, anyway, these last two articles, interesting reading.

Karen Lynch: Yeah, for real.

Lenny Murphy: So, speaking of the competition, winners, right, Zappy, kind of our poster child of one of the original companies that have come through that ecosystem. Connected insights imperative 2026. That was so key takeaway: they released the support. More connected data, less satisfied buyers.

Karen Lynch: Yeah.

Lenny Murphy: And I just thought, boy. And not just that, but it's also the difference between the two buyer groups, which we see in Grit, between researchers and non-research buyers who view these things differently.

Karen Lynch: Yeah.

Lenny Murphy: So connected consumer data rose from 38% to 48% year over year, while satisfaction of insights fell from 60% to 48%. Yeah. Yeah. According to their data. Yeah.

Karen Lynch: And boy, is it because it's not about the bright, shiny thing? Okay, you put all these cool things together. Yeah.

Lenny Murphy: Does it answer a question? Does it create impact? Does it create real value? Yeah. That's the unlock.

Karen Lynch: Yeah. There's a, there's, the sub in once you click on this link, there's a like the kind of subtitle in here is. 93% of orgs use AI, but just 8% are AI accelerated, which is like this huge gap between what like AI technology adoption and like real connected consumer learning. So it's interesting because just because you've adopted it doesn't mean you fully leaned in, right? So I think that's a very, very interesting stat right there. So yeah. Yeah, pretty cool, pretty cool research.

Lenny Murphy: Check it out, check it out, yes, yes, so, but yeah, let's leave, let's end on this brighter note, shall we? Yes, because this is interesting. Why don't you go with it?

Karen Lynch: Oh, no, so EY, Ernest and Young, you know, like to talk about the, you know, I mentioned Bain before, but let's talk about, you know, somebody in the big four here, they've announced a hundred million dollar bonus pool that they are giving out for. Judgment, right? So they're awarding in this tech-led, you know, human power award, they're awarding, they're going to reward leadership and business acumen and collaboration and adaptability. They're basically, kind of putting a dollar value on these human capabilities, saying, no, no, we're going to start to reward those human, very, very human skills, not just, you know, this high-tech focus. So love this, love this. I love this story. You know, they want, they think, or they are kind of literally putting money on the fact that these are important qualities right alongside AI and tech proficiency. Let's, you know, let's make sure we're also rewarding these very, very important human business skills, which I love, love, love reading this because I think it's probably true more now than ever before.

Lenny Murphy: Yeah, yeah. And there was a corroborative article that we did about the cut for this from McKinsey. I'm basically talking about the same thing. So that, that, this theme of recognizing that, you know, where does value accrue? Yeah.

Karen Lynch: Data. Yeah.

Lenny Murphy: And expertise. Yeah. So, and expertise, we call it whatever wisdom, judgment, discernment, you know, whatever. Um, soft skills. Yeah. And yeah. And EY just put it, they just put a dollar figure on that. What is the value? Well, they think it's worth $100 million.

Karen Lynch: Yeah. So yeah. Um, and I would do, I will do one more plug for AI. Our very first session is called the human advantage: why ai makes you more valuable not less. So, the human advantage is what we're talking about. So, yep, back to our previous conversation.

Lenny Murphy: I had the same conversation with someone else this morning. I am, I feel expansive.

Karen Lynch: Yeah.

Lenny Murphy: You know, I can do more and arguably better. More thoughtful, more deep, more deeper, deeper work. Even deeper. More deeper. It's bigger than I did before. There's that. Yeah. Yeah. And that's because I can focus on judgment expertise, right? Because the process was not ever defined. You know, my role.

Karen Lynch: Yeah.

Lenny Murphy: So, uh, and I think that's just what they're digging into, right? Is helping humans decouple from task to impact.

Karen Lynch: Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's, it's all good. I feel the same way. It's good times. It's good times out there. So. Yep. Friends, that is our show, Lenny. Look, 45 minutes.

Lenny Murphy: I know. Well, that's our new, that's our new standard, I think.

Karen Lynch: Yeah, that's our new standard. It's not, it's not our 15, it's not our 30, it is our 45. So, um, here we are.

Lenny Murphy: But, um, yeah, everybody has a wonderful long holiday weekend.

Karen Lynch: Have a wonderful, long holiday weekend for sure. We will see you next Friday. And yeah, and we'll have a, we'll both be here again.

Lenny Murphy: We will. We will. All right. Everybody, take care. Bye-bye now. Bye.

Links from the episode:

Conveo Raises $50M Series A, Calls Itself Infrastructure Rather Than a Tool 

askpolly Raises $3M Seed, Bets Against Both Social Listening and Synthetic Personas 

Tripo AI Raises ~$445M to Train 3D World Models 

AI Shopping Agents Are Unpredictable and Ungoverned 

NIQ and Similarweb Launch Agentic Commerce Measurement 

Rep Data Launches Research Desk MCP Server 

Euromonitor Brings Passport Intelligence Into Microsoft 365 Copilot 

Askalytics Launches a Self-Checking Analytics Platform 

Optimizely Introduces Virtual Teammates 

Cint and Potloc Collaborate on AI-Native Research via MCP 

Outset Digital Twins Offer a Middle Ground Between Human and Synthetic Research 

Zappi’s Connected Insights Imperative 2026: More Connected Data, Less Satisfied Buyers 

EY Announces a $100 Million Bonus Pool for Judgment, Not Output